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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Agreed that breaking the work down into smaller scoped packages gives us the best chance of making forward motion. Taking a Lego approach of having building blocks where one spec can build or extend
another has worked well in helping progress work (as long as we keep the narrative of how they fit together crisp). For example, we can define message formats/protocols, separate from transports (perhaps this is how we differentiate between push and pull as
well) and so forth.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> policy-charter <policy-charter-bounces@lists.openid.net>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Gerry Gebel via policy-charter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 19, 2023 4:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Policy Charter Mail List <policy-charter@lists.openid.net><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Gerry Gebel <gerry@strata.io><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [policy-charter] Admin Policy Push Group<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">@Omri - I agree with Andrew here that we should keep the scope more narrowly defined. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Some of what you describe (push vs. pull) will be specific to the target environment and not easily generalized.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
That said, a separate work stream can be started if that is appropriate<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Gerry<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Jun 18, 2023 at 5:05 PM Andrew Hughes via policy-charter <<a href="mailto:policy-charter@lists.openid.net">policy-charter@lists.openid.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I prefer the most narrow scope possible. Otherwise we will never finish. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Other people will work with n the other parts. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Jun 18, 2023 at 4:00 PM Omri Gazitt via policy-charter <<a href="mailto:policy-charter@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">policy-charter@lists.openid.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">One thing I'd like to put out there...<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In a world where both policy and data are important parts of a decision, we should consider expanding the scope of what we believe should be pushed from an administration point to a decision point. Specifically, with a ReBAC model (or
a hybrid policy-as-code / policy-as-data model), changes in relationships between subjects and objects are as critical to communicate as policy changes. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If folks agree, then perhaps the name of the workstream should be generalized to "PAP-PDP group". <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Additionally, there are two possible models to consider - Pull and Push. For example, OPA defines a
<a href="https://www.openpolicyagent.org/docs/latest/management-bundles/" target="_blank">
pull model</a> for a PDP to obtain policy updates from a policy bundle service. In practice, a push model seems critical for real-world scenarios.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Jun 18, 2023 at 2:54 PM Roland Baum via policy-charter <<a href="mailto:policy-charter@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">policy-charter@lists.openid.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p>me too! :-D<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Am 15.06.23 um 20:51 schrieb Omri Gazitt via policy-charter:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Me too<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 10:35 AM Atul Tulshibagwale via policy-charter <<a href="mailto:policy-charter@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">policy-charter@lists.openid.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Im in<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 10:34 AM Vittorio Bertocci via policy-charter <<a href="mailto:policy-charter@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">policy-charter@lists.openid.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Would love to be on it!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 10:33 David Brossard via policy-charter <<a href="mailto:policy-charter@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">policy-charter@lists.openid.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">This message originated outside your organization.</span></strong><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Count me in too<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jun 15, 2023, 10:30 AM Shayne Miel (smiel) via policy-charter <<a href="mailto:policy-charter@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">policy-charter@lists.openid.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Please count me in for the Admin Policy Push group.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Shayne Miel<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Shayne Miel</span></strong><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#999999">/</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> Principal Engineer (he, him, his)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<a href="mailto:smiel@cisco.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#174E86">smiel@cisco.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
(919) 923-6230<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.cisco.com/site/us/en/products/security/index.html__;!!PwKahg!4zuqlwDjQsKy8apRVi9ImPprXSTXVrhXnrfmIhSUtDp3STR8J62s7zvfMsE7Z_yaCzNWpdSxS1yQ-Vb0CLNdfhklKja8Kb_WYdE$" target="_blank" title="https://www.cisco.com/site/us/en/products/security/index.html"><span style="color:#174E86">cisco.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> policy-charter <<a href="mailto:policy-charter-bounces@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">policy-charter-bounces@lists.openid.net</a>> on behalf of Gerry Gebel via policy-charter
<<a href="mailto:policy-charter@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">policy-charter@lists.openid.net</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 15, 2023 10:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Policy Charter Mail List <<a href="mailto:policy-charter@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">policy-charter@lists.openid.net</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Gerry Gebel <<a href="mailto:gerry@strata.io" target="_blank">gerry@strata.io</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [policy-charter] Admin Policy Push Group</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi all - <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks to Andrew Hughes for leading the PEP-PDP Group and those that have expressed interest in pursuing that effort.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">How about the Admin Policy Push work stream? Who is interested in participating?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Gerry <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="margin:0cm"><a href="http://www.aserto.com/" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="96" height="35" style="width:1.0in;height:.3645in" id="_x0000_i1029" src="https://raw.githubusercontent.com/aserto-dev/artwork/main/logo/horizontal/color/aserto-horizontal-color.png"></span></a><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin:0cm"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:black">Omri Gazitt</span></b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">
</span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:black">| </span>
</b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:black">CEO</span><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:black"><a href="http://www.aserto.com/" target="_blank">Aserto</a> Inc.</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">
</span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:black">| </span>
</b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Roboto;color:black">(425) 765-0079</span><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew Hughes<br>
Director, Identity Standards<br>
Ping Identity<br>
Signal/Mobile: +12508889474<o:p></o:p></p>
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