From gerry at strata.io  Wed Aug  9 17:55:48 2023
From: gerry at strata.io (Gerry Gebel)
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2023 10:55:48 -0700
Subject: [policy-charter] Reminder: weekly call tomorrow at 8am PT / 17:00
 CET
Message-ID: <CAFffDHhte0waNOekPb4KZGZrQ3oN=Q0eVTxGLy2=raHPjbXLEQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Hopefully you have already subscribed to the OIDF calendar per Mike's note
from last week. If not, you can do so here: https://openid.net/calendar/

Suggested agenda:

- Outreach report: OASIS (David), OPA (Omri), NIST (Gerry)
- Review current work
- Continue discussing scope

Best regards,
Gerry
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From omri at aserto.com  Wed Aug  9 19:50:51 2023
From: omri at aserto.com (Omri Gazitt)
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2023 12:50:51 -0700
Subject: [policy-charter] Reminder: weekly call tomorrow at 8am PT /
 17:00 CET
In-Reply-To: <CAFffDHhte0waNOekPb4KZGZrQ3oN=Q0eVTxGLy2=raHPjbXLEQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFffDHhte0waNOekPb4KZGZrQ3oN=Q0eVTxGLy2=raHPjbXLEQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALkJ7sX9qT6WFQ1=dqfPcJF1xeLETZgeuQPvDDdMs8LzmJA04Q@mail.gmail.com>

Brief update on OPA - Anders Eknert from Styra expressed interest to join,
but can't make Thursdays 5pm CEST due to an ongoing conflict. He asked me
whether the meetings are recorded - are they?

Thanks,
Omri.

On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 10:56?AM Gerry Gebel via policy-charter <
policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Hopefully you have already subscribed to the OIDF calendar per Mike's note
> from last week. If not, you can do so here: https://openid.net/calendar/
>
> Suggested agenda:
>
> - Outreach report: OASIS (David), OPA (Omri), NIST (Gerry)
> - Review current work
> - Continue discussing scope
>
> Best regards,
> Gerry
> --
> policy-charter mailing list
> policy-charter at lists.openid.net
> https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
>
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From gerry at strata.io  Wed Aug  9 21:28:36 2023
From: gerry at strata.io (Gerry Gebel)
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2023 14:28:36 -0700
Subject: [policy-charter] Reminder: weekly call tomorrow at 8am PT /
 17:00 CET
In-Reply-To: <CALkJ7sX9qT6WFQ1=dqfPcJF1xeLETZgeuQPvDDdMs8LzmJA04Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFffDHhte0waNOekPb4KZGZrQ3oN=Q0eVTxGLy2=raHPjbXLEQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALkJ7sX9qT6WFQ1=dqfPcJF1xeLETZgeuQPvDDdMs8LzmJA04Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFffDHipyc3aBfjb67tuHVAjXrm4Z0sHqYuX=ni2RGJ7eGSW6w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Omri -

No, the meetings have not been recorded so far but we could discuss that
tomorrow

Thanks,
Gerry

On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 12:51?PM Omri Gazitt <omri at aserto.com> wrote:

> Brief update on OPA - Anders Eknert from Styra expressed interest to join,
> but can't make Thursdays 5pm CEST due to an ongoing conflict. He asked me
> whether the meetings are recorded - are they?
>
> Thanks,
> Omri.
>
> On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 10:56?AM Gerry Gebel via policy-charter <
> policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Hopefully you have already subscribed to the OIDF calendar per Mike's
>> note from last week. If not, you can do so here:
>> https://openid.net/calendar/
>>
>> Suggested agenda:
>>
>> - Outreach report: OASIS (David), OPA (Omri), NIST (Gerry)
>> - Review current work
>> - Continue discussing scope
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Gerry
>> --
>> policy-charter mailing list
>> policy-charter at lists.openid.net
>> https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
>>
>
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From atul at sgnl.ai  Wed Aug  9 21:32:30 2023
From: atul at sgnl.ai (Atul Tulshibagwale)
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2023 14:32:30 -0700
Subject: [policy-charter] Reminder: weekly call tomorrow at 8am PT /
 17:00 CET
In-Reply-To: <CAFffDHipyc3aBfjb67tuHVAjXrm4Z0sHqYuX=ni2RGJ7eGSW6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFffDHhte0waNOekPb4KZGZrQ3oN=Q0eVTxGLy2=raHPjbXLEQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALkJ7sX9qT6WFQ1=dqfPcJF1xeLETZgeuQPvDDdMs8LzmJA04Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFffDHipyc3aBfjb67tuHVAjXrm4Z0sHqYuX=ni2RGJ7eGSW6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANtBS9dYTY9uRT2CZiQbEXUFKza+q_4U01d7Ak0iUM0nCWxf9A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
On tomorrow's call, can we discuss what is required to submit the charter
to the OpenID Foundation? I've made some suggested changes to the charter
doc
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ijAaymAapYyeV_3qMVjuLtNzoskKsh7R/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=100943190764804064317&rtpof=true&sd=true>,
but they haven't been accepted / commented on yet.

I believe we should first do this so that subsequent meetings can be held
in accordance with the OpenID Foundation's normal process.

Thanks,
Atul


On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 2:28?PM Gerry Gebel via policy-charter <
policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:

> Hi Omri -
>
> No, the meetings have not been recorded so far but we could discuss that
> tomorrow
>
> Thanks,
> Gerry
>
> On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 12:51?PM Omri Gazitt <omri at aserto.com> wrote:
>
>> Brief update on OPA - Anders Eknert from Styra expressed interest to
>> join, but can't make Thursdays 5pm CEST due to an ongoing conflict. He
>> asked me whether the meetings are recorded - are they?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Omri.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 10:56?AM Gerry Gebel via policy-charter <
>> policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Hopefully you have already subscribed to the OIDF calendar per Mike's
>>> note from last week. If not, you can do so here:
>>> https://openid.net/calendar/
>>>
>>> Suggested agenda:
>>>
>>> - Outreach report: OASIS (David), OPA (Omri), NIST (Gerry)
>>> - Review current work
>>> - Continue discussing scope
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Gerry
>>> --
>>> policy-charter mailing list
>>> policy-charter at lists.openid.net
>>> https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
>>>
>> --
> policy-charter mailing list
> policy-charter at lists.openid.net
> https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
>


-- 

<https://sgnl.ai>

Atul Tulshibagwale

CTO

<https://linkedin.com/in/tulshi> <https://twitter.com/zirotrust>
<atul at sgnl.ai>
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From omri at aserto.com  Wed Aug  9 23:27:28 2023
From: omri at aserto.com (Omri Gazitt)
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2023 16:27:28 -0700
Subject: [policy-charter] Updates to the charter doc
In-Reply-To: <CANtBS9cTdi-H71znQKFm9jcaX9rJEbB9APMGdJeo5hqSp7MnaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANtBS9cU=f825490G60=89rom-jz40c_xdYkiqJqY_yeW3zgrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANtBS9cTdi-H71znQKFm9jcaX9rJEbB9APMGdJeo5hqSp7MnaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALkJ7sVL1Eh0W=SUEb3VuK5_LqwNbji4x3+drd-Qp-49+zLv4A@mail.gmail.com>

Atul, I think there are two efforts going on, PDP-PEP and PAP-PDP, with two
different owners (Andrew Hughes and Gerry).  The meetings that Gerry set up
were focused on the latter, but I believe we all agreed in the last call
that we ought to have a single charter with different workstreams, since
the majority of folks are interested in both.

The charter proposal that both of us commented on is related to the former
(PDP-PEP).

During tomorrow's meeting, perhaps we should discuss whether we should have
a single charter, and decide whether we want to have two workstreams or one?

Thanks,
Omri.

On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 9:38?AM Atul Tulshibagwale via policy-charter <
policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
> Someone mentioned to me they didn't know where the charter doc was, so I'm
> sharing it here:
>
>  DRAFT Charter Proposal for PDP-PEP Interoperabi...
> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ijAaymAapYyeV_3qMVjuLtNzoskKsh7R/view?usp=drive_web>
>
> Atul
>
> On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 3:30?PM Atul Tulshibagwale <atul at sgnl.ai> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> FYI: I've suggested changes to the policy charter doc: i've restated the
>> purpose and used the alternate suggested name. Also added the AuthZAPI as a
>> proposed deliverable.
>>
>> Atul
>>
>> --
> policy-charter mailing list
> policy-charter at lists.openid.net
> https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
>
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From gerry at strata.io  Thu Aug 10 00:11:34 2023
From: gerry at strata.io (Gerry Gebel)
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2023 17:11:34 -0700
Subject: [policy-charter] Updates to the charter doc
In-Reply-To: <CALkJ7sVL1Eh0W=SUEb3VuK5_LqwNbji4x3+drd-Qp-49+zLv4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANtBS9cU=f825490G60=89rom-jz40c_xdYkiqJqY_yeW3zgrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANtBS9cTdi-H71znQKFm9jcaX9rJEbB9APMGdJeo5hqSp7MnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALkJ7sVL1Eh0W=SUEb3VuK5_LqwNbji4x3+drd-Qp-49+zLv4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFffDHhH+PnKpM6FKbeL8nWEN--4=LfRaddPYfqoKTPFQ+giJQ@mail.gmail.com>

Omri, Atul -

My recollection is that the group was leaning toward one charter for both
workstreams since there is so much overlap in the participants.

Regards,
Gerry

On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 4:27?PM Omri Gazitt via policy-charter <
policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:

> Atul, I think there are two efforts going on, PDP-PEP and PAP-PDP, with
> two different owners (Andrew Hughes and Gerry).  The meetings that Gerry
> set up were focused on the latter, but I believe we all agreed in the last
> call that we ought to have a single charter with different workstreams,
> since the majority of folks are interested in both.
>
> The charter proposal that both of us commented on is related to the former
> (PDP-PEP).
>
> During tomorrow's meeting, perhaps we should discuss whether we should
> have a single charter, and decide whether we want to have two workstreams
> or one?
>
> Thanks,
> Omri.
>
> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 9:38?AM Atul Tulshibagwale via policy-charter <
> policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> Someone mentioned to me they didn't know where the charter doc was, so
>> I'm sharing it here:
>>
>>  DRAFT Charter Proposal for PDP-PEP Interoperabi...
>> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ijAaymAapYyeV_3qMVjuLtNzoskKsh7R/view?usp=drive_web>
>>
>> Atul
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 3:30?PM Atul Tulshibagwale <atul at sgnl.ai> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> FYI: I've suggested changes to the policy charter doc: i've restated the
>>> purpose and used the alternate suggested name. Also added the AuthZAPI as a
>>> proposed deliverable.
>>>
>>> Atul
>>>
>>> --
>> policy-charter mailing list
>> policy-charter at lists.openid.net
>> https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
>>
> --
> policy-charter mailing list
> policy-charter at lists.openid.net
> https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
>
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From omri at aserto.com  Thu Aug 10 00:32:04 2023
From: omri at aserto.com (Omri Gazitt)
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2023 17:32:04 -0700
Subject: [policy-charter] Updates to the charter doc
In-Reply-To: <CAFffDHhH+PnKpM6FKbeL8nWEN--4=LfRaddPYfqoKTPFQ+giJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANtBS9cU=f825490G60=89rom-jz40c_xdYkiqJqY_yeW3zgrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANtBS9cTdi-H71znQKFm9jcaX9rJEbB9APMGdJeo5hqSp7MnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALkJ7sVL1Eh0W=SUEb3VuK5_LqwNbji4x3+drd-Qp-49+zLv4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFffDHhH+PnKpM6FKbeL8nWEN--4=LfRaddPYfqoKTPFQ+giJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALkJ7sWe1xuKU5B2+V+gAAobcWqUJ2KGNeKWaBLtgjVqyNB+hA@mail.gmail.com>

That is my recollection as well.

On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 5:11 PM Gerry Gebel <gerry at strata.io> wrote:

> Omri, Atul -
>
> My recollection is that the group was leaning toward one charter for both
> workstreams since there is so much overlap in the participants.
>
> Regards,
> Gerry
>
> On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 4:27?PM Omri Gazitt via policy-charter <
> policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>
>> Atul, I think there are two efforts going on, PDP-PEP and PAP-PDP, with
>> two different owners (Andrew Hughes and Gerry).  The meetings that Gerry
>> set up were focused on the latter, but I believe we all agreed in the last
>> call that we ought to have a single charter with different workstreams,
>> since the majority of folks are interested in both.
>>
>> The charter proposal that both of us commented on is related to the
>> former (PDP-PEP).
>>
>> During tomorrow's meeting, perhaps we should discuss whether we should
>> have a single charter, and decide whether we want to have two workstreams
>> or one?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Omri.
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 9:38?AM Atul Tulshibagwale via policy-charter <
>> policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> Someone mentioned to me they didn't know where the charter doc was, so
>>> I'm sharing it here:
>>>
>>>  DRAFT Charter Proposal for PDP-PEP Interoperabi...
>>> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ijAaymAapYyeV_3qMVjuLtNzoskKsh7R/view?usp=drive_web>
>>>
>>> Atul
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 3:30?PM Atul Tulshibagwale <atul at sgnl.ai> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> FYI: I've suggested changes to the policy charter doc: i've restated
>>>> the purpose and used the alternate suggested name. Also added the AuthZAPI
>>>> as a proposed deliverable.
>>>>
>>>> Atul
>>>>
>>>> --
>>> policy-charter mailing list
>>> policy-charter at lists.openid.net
>>> https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
>>>
>> --
>> policy-charter mailing list
>> policy-charter at lists.openid.net
>> https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
>>
> --

<http://www.aserto.com/>

Omri Gazitt | CEO

Aserto <http://www.aserto.com/> Inc. | (425) 765-0079
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From atul at sgnl.ai  Thu Aug 10 00:36:39 2023
From: atul at sgnl.ai (Atul Tulshibagwale)
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2023 17:36:39 -0700
Subject: [policy-charter] Updates to the charter doc
In-Reply-To: <CALkJ7sWe1xuKU5B2+V+gAAobcWqUJ2KGNeKWaBLtgjVqyNB+hA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANtBS9cU=f825490G60=89rom-jz40c_xdYkiqJqY_yeW3zgrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANtBS9cTdi-H71znQKFm9jcaX9rJEbB9APMGdJeo5hqSp7MnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALkJ7sVL1Eh0W=SUEb3VuK5_LqwNbji4x3+drd-Qp-49+zLv4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFffDHhH+PnKpM6FKbeL8nWEN--4=LfRaddPYfqoKTPFQ+giJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALkJ7sWe1xuKU5B2+V+gAAobcWqUJ2KGNeKWaBLtgjVqyNB+hA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANtBS9empx42w50QitCO5uGHs9ukiqmq=rckWMHa=PAwUkYSRQ@mail.gmail.com>

I agree that we should have a broad charter that covers both the areas of
interest. I have tried to take this view in the changes that I suggested to
the charter.

On Wed, Aug 9, 2023, 5:32 PM Omri Gazitt via policy-charter <
policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:

> That is my recollection as well.
>
> On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 5:11 PM Gerry Gebel <gerry at strata.io> wrote:
>
>> Omri, Atul -
>>
>> My recollection is that the group was leaning toward one charter for both
>> workstreams since there is so much overlap in the participants.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Gerry
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 4:27?PM Omri Gazitt via policy-charter <
>> policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Atul, I think there are two efforts going on, PDP-PEP and PAP-PDP, with
>>> two different owners (Andrew Hughes and Gerry).  The meetings that Gerry
>>> set up were focused on the latter, but I believe we all agreed in the last
>>> call that we ought to have a single charter with different workstreams,
>>> since the majority of folks are interested in both.
>>>
>>> The charter proposal that both of us commented on is related to the
>>> former (PDP-PEP).
>>>
>>> During tomorrow's meeting, perhaps we should discuss whether we should
>>> have a single charter, and decide whether we want to have two workstreams
>>> or one?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Omri.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 9:38?AM Atul Tulshibagwale via policy-charter <
>>> policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> Someone mentioned to me they didn't know where the charter doc was, so
>>>> I'm sharing it here:
>>>>
>>>>  DRAFT Charter Proposal for PDP-PEP Interoperabi...
>>>> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ijAaymAapYyeV_3qMVjuLtNzoskKsh7R/view?usp=drive_web>
>>>>
>>>> Atul
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 3:30?PM Atul Tulshibagwale <atul at sgnl.ai>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> FYI: I've suggested changes to the policy charter doc: i've restated
>>>>> the purpose and used the alternate suggested name. Also added the AuthZAPI
>>>>> as a proposed deliverable.
>>>>>
>>>>> Atul
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>> policy-charter mailing list
>>>> policy-charter at lists.openid.net
>>>> https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
>>>>
>>> --
>>> policy-charter mailing list
>>> policy-charter at lists.openid.net
>>> https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
>>>
>> --
>
> <http://www.aserto.com/>
>
> Omri Gazitt | CEO
>
> Aserto <http://www.aserto.com/> Inc. | (425) 765-0079
> --
> policy-charter mailing list
> policy-charter at lists.openid.net
> https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
>
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From alex at 3edges.com  Thu Aug 10 16:13:34 2023
From: alex at 3edges.com (Alex Babeanu)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2023 09:13:34 -0700
Subject: [policy-charter] Updates to the charter doc
In-Reply-To: <CANtBS9empx42w50QitCO5uGHs9ukiqmq=rckWMHa=PAwUkYSRQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANtBS9cU=f825490G60=89rom-jz40c_xdYkiqJqY_yeW3zgrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANtBS9cTdi-H71znQKFm9jcaX9rJEbB9APMGdJeo5hqSp7MnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALkJ7sVL1Eh0W=SUEb3VuK5_LqwNbji4x3+drd-Qp-49+zLv4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFffDHhH+PnKpM6FKbeL8nWEN--4=LfRaddPYfqoKTPFQ+giJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALkJ7sWe1xuKU5B2+V+gAAobcWqUJ2KGNeKWaBLtgjVqyNB+hA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANtBS9empx42w50QitCO5uGHs9ukiqmq=rckWMHa=PAwUkYSRQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOFyxENJ4ukYafJ5LiEUKb9x3ei-DHP_0dmY50toFPhhqvvZZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
Couldn't make today's meeting, so I'm not sure if this was discussed. But
just in case...

Given that defining Use-cases and Patterns for AuthZ is part of the scope
of the WG charter, just wanted to remind everyone that we have a draft doc
that goes through these, here :
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xf5H2hLSJVa-iRTenwlAlD48dntbL8uuItDQlCIonUI/edit?usp=sharing


Cheers,

./\lex.
--
[image: This is Alexandre Babeanu's card. Their email is alex at 3edges.com.
Their phone number is +1 604 728 8130.]
<https://hihello.me/p/cda689b1-0378-4b9c-88cf-33a9bc8ef0c5>

On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 5:36?PM Atul Tulshibagwale via policy-charter <
policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:

> I agree that we should have a broad charter that covers both the areas of
> interest. I have tried to take this view in the changes that I suggested to
> the charter.
>
> On Wed, Aug 9, 2023, 5:32 PM Omri Gazitt via policy-charter <
> policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>
>> That is my recollection as well.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 5:11 PM Gerry Gebel <gerry at strata.io> wrote:
>>
>>> Omri, Atul -
>>>
>>> My recollection is that the group was leaning toward one charter for
>>> both workstreams since there is so much overlap in the participants.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Gerry
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 4:27?PM Omri Gazitt via policy-charter <
>>> policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Atul, I think there are two efforts going on, PDP-PEP and PAP-PDP, with
>>>> two different owners (Andrew Hughes and Gerry).  The meetings that Gerry
>>>> set up were focused on the latter, but I believe we all agreed in the last
>>>> call that we ought to have a single charter with different workstreams,
>>>> since the majority of folks are interested in both.
>>>>
>>>> The charter proposal that both of us commented on is related to the
>>>> former (PDP-PEP).
>>>>
>>>> During tomorrow's meeting, perhaps we should discuss whether we should
>>>> have a single charter, and decide whether we want to have two workstreams
>>>> or one?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Omri.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 9:38?AM Atul Tulshibagwale via policy-charter <
>>>> policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> Someone mentioned to me they didn't know where the charter doc was, so
>>>>> I'm sharing it here:
>>>>>
>>>>>  DRAFT Charter Proposal for PDP-PEP Interoperabi...
>>>>> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ijAaymAapYyeV_3qMVjuLtNzoskKsh7R/view?usp=drive_web>
>>>>>
>>>>> Atul
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 3:30?PM Atul Tulshibagwale <atul at sgnl.ai>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> FYI: I've suggested changes to the policy charter doc: i've restated
>>>>>> the purpose and used the alternate suggested name. Also added the AuthZAPI
>>>>>> as a proposed deliverable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Atul
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>> policy-charter mailing list
>>>>> policy-charter at lists.openid.net
>>>>> https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> policy-charter mailing list
>>>> policy-charter at lists.openid.net
>>>> https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
>>>>
>>> --
>>
>> <http://www.aserto.com/>
>>
>> Omri Gazitt | CEO
>>
>> Aserto <http://www.aserto.com/> Inc. | (425) 765-0079
>> --
>> policy-charter mailing list
>> policy-charter at lists.openid.net
>> https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
>>
> --
> policy-charter mailing list
> policy-charter at lists.openid.net
> https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
>

-- 
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From acampbell at duosecurity.com  Thu Aug 10 16:50:25 2023
From: acampbell at duosecurity.com (Aaron Campbell)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2023 13:50:25 -0300
Subject: [policy-charter] Updates to the charter doc
In-Reply-To: <CAOFyxENJ4ukYafJ5LiEUKb9x3ei-DHP_0dmY50toFPhhqvvZZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANtBS9cU=f825490G60=89rom-jz40c_xdYkiqJqY_yeW3zgrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANtBS9cTdi-H71znQKFm9jcaX9rJEbB9APMGdJeo5hqSp7MnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALkJ7sVL1Eh0W=SUEb3VuK5_LqwNbji4x3+drd-Qp-49+zLv4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFffDHhH+PnKpM6FKbeL8nWEN--4=LfRaddPYfqoKTPFQ+giJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALkJ7sWe1xuKU5B2+V+gAAobcWqUJ2KGNeKWaBLtgjVqyNB+hA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANtBS9empx42w50QitCO5uGHs9ukiqmq=rckWMHa=PAwUkYSRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOFyxENJ4ukYafJ5LiEUKb9x3ei-DHP_0dmY50toFPhhqvvZZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGpv_qP=rqib__kPG5=e3kkbdTCwKAq_AwxqY9cnBpuEtiwnGw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I'm not sure I ever properly introduced myself, but I work in the Cisco
Security Business Group, primarily on interactive user authentication,
especially as it relates to secure access. Policy is a big topic for us,
both from an authorization as well as authentication angle, and I hope we
can bring a unique perspective.

Appreciate all the great dialog today around a very complex topic, although
it does seem we are still spinning our wheels a bit.

We touched on this briefly at the first meeting, but I'd urge an evaluation
of the existing technologies and choose one to foster and build upon,
rather than treat all of the current systems as equally worthy of being
supported by an interoperability-focused standard. That just seems way too
hard given the fluidity of the space and the differing capabilities, as was
already mentioned. Plus it feels like you'd end up in a place where the
standard only supports the lowest common denominator instead of the more
advanced features that already exist.

I expanded on these thoughts a bit at the end of the charter doc, if anyone
has thoughts. I haven't participated much in standards bodies in the past
and eager to learn more from all of you. :)

-Aaron
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From alex at 3edges.com  Thu Aug 10 17:29:23 2023
From: alex at 3edges.com (Alex Babeanu)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2023 10:29:23 -0700
Subject: [policy-charter] Updates to the charter doc
In-Reply-To: <CAGpv_qP=rqib__kPG5=e3kkbdTCwKAq_AwxqY9cnBpuEtiwnGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANtBS9cU=f825490G60=89rom-jz40c_xdYkiqJqY_yeW3zgrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANtBS9cTdi-H71znQKFm9jcaX9rJEbB9APMGdJeo5hqSp7MnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALkJ7sVL1Eh0W=SUEb3VuK5_LqwNbji4x3+drd-Qp-49+zLv4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFffDHhH+PnKpM6FKbeL8nWEN--4=LfRaddPYfqoKTPFQ+giJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALkJ7sWe1xuKU5B2+V+gAAobcWqUJ2KGNeKWaBLtgjVqyNB+hA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANtBS9empx42w50QitCO5uGHs9ukiqmq=rckWMHa=PAwUkYSRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOFyxENJ4ukYafJ5LiEUKb9x3ei-DHP_0dmY50toFPhhqvvZZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGpv_qP=rqib__kPG5=e3kkbdTCwKAq_AwxqY9cnBpuEtiwnGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOFyxEOv1XcuE18aC83K9HMA1MK0+bvRUv6Se1aJ5CSi7X+02w@mail.gmail.com>

Re: " but I'd urge an evaluation of the existing technologies and choose
one to foster and build upon"
-- I strongly disagree!! Whatever we do should be tech-agnostic. Or are you
proposing to kill right away whichever company/org doesn't use your
"chosen" tech ??

I think the idea is to build interop standards: whatever tech you use, we
need to be able to exchange data about AuthZ. So start top down instead of
bottom up.

Cheers,

./\.

On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 9:51?AM Aaron Campbell via policy-charter <
policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm not sure I ever properly introduced myself, but I work in the Cisco
> Security Business Group, primarily on interactive user authentication,
> especially as it relates to secure access. Policy is a big topic for us,
> both from an authorization as well as authentication angle, and I hope we
> can bring a unique perspective.
>
> Appreciate all the great dialog today around a very complex topic,
> although it does seem we are still spinning our wheels a bit.
>
> We touched on this briefly at the first meeting, but I'd urge an
> evaluation of the existing technologies and choose one to foster and build
> upon, rather than treat all of the current systems as equally worthy of
> being supported by an interoperability-focused standard. That just seems
> way too hard given the fluidity of the space and the
> differing capabilities, as was already mentioned. Plus it feels like you'd
> end up in a place where the standard only supports the lowest common
> denominator instead of the more advanced features that already exist.
>
> I expanded on these thoughts a bit at the end of the charter doc, if
> anyone has thoughts. I haven't participated much in standards bodies in the
> past and eager to learn more from all of you. :)
>
> -Aaron
> --
> policy-charter mailing list
> policy-charter at lists.openid.net
> https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
>


-- 
[image: This is Alexandre Babeanu's card. Their email is alex at 3edges.com.
Their phone number is +1 604 728 8130.]
<https://hihello.me/p/cda689b1-0378-4b9c-88cf-33a9bc8ef0c5>

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From acampbell at duosecurity.com  Thu Aug 10 17:43:43 2023
From: acampbell at duosecurity.com (Aaron Campbell)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2023 14:43:43 -0300
Subject: [policy-charter] Updates to the charter doc
In-Reply-To: <CAOFyxEOv1XcuE18aC83K9HMA1MK0+bvRUv6Se1aJ5CSi7X+02w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANtBS9cU=f825490G60=89rom-jz40c_xdYkiqJqY_yeW3zgrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANtBS9cTdi-H71znQKFm9jcaX9rJEbB9APMGdJeo5hqSp7MnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALkJ7sVL1Eh0W=SUEb3VuK5_LqwNbji4x3+drd-Qp-49+zLv4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFffDHhH+PnKpM6FKbeL8nWEN--4=LfRaddPYfqoKTPFQ+giJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALkJ7sWe1xuKU5B2+V+gAAobcWqUJ2KGNeKWaBLtgjVqyNB+hA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANtBS9empx42w50QitCO5uGHs9ukiqmq=rckWMHa=PAwUkYSRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOFyxENJ4ukYafJ5LiEUKb9x3ei-DHP_0dmY50toFPhhqvvZZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGpv_qP=rqib__kPG5=e3kkbdTCwKAq_AwxqY9cnBpuEtiwnGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOFyxEOv1XcuE18aC83K9HMA1MK0+bvRUv6Se1aJ5CSi7X+02w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGpv_qNBT_Htwup3fGhG8HQet2pVfS3ZWTBewwNXNPUkdaH1HA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 2:29?PM Alex Babeanu <alex at 3edges.com> wrote:

> Re: " but I'd urge an evaluation of the existing technologies and choose
> one to foster and build upon"
> -- I strongly disagree!! Whatever we do should be tech-agnostic. Or are
> you proposing to kill right away whichever company/org doesn't use your
> "chosen" tech ??
>
> I think the idea is to build interop standards: whatever tech you use, we
> need to be able to exchange data about AuthZ. So start top down instead of
> bottom up.
>

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that years of effort have already
gone into building existing policy languages for effecting AuthZ, some of
them more suited to standardization than others. For example, SQL first
came out of IBM. And then became standardized. That created a common base
layer for other tech to grow from.

I agree w/ what Andrew Hughes said in the doc:

DISCUSS: are we going to reconcile the different conceptual underpinnings
of all the approaches? Seems ambitious.

-Aaron
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From gerry at strata.io  Thu Aug 10 18:30:36 2023
From: gerry at strata.io (Gerry Gebel)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2023 11:30:36 -0700
Subject: [policy-charter] new time/date for this group
Message-ID: <CAFffDHjRuuCfQPnohz71+muhvUvw_rmTa5upp4of07wEY-tmhw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi -

We are currently in the same time slot as the SIOP special topic call, so
OIDF has asked us to move to a different time.

On today's call it was suggested that we move to Tuesdays at 9am PT -
please indicate whether that works for your schedule

Thanks
Gerry
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From alex at 3edges.com  Thu Aug 10 18:32:37 2023
From: alex at 3edges.com (Alex Babeanu)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2023 11:32:37 -0700
Subject: [policy-charter] new time/date for this group
In-Reply-To: <CAFffDHjRuuCfQPnohz71+muhvUvw_rmTa5upp4of07wEY-tmhw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFffDHjRuuCfQPnohz71+muhvUvw_rmTa5upp4of07wEY-tmhw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOFyxEOAepx=PpQiZebRF10qOB3a=MBUNRcfY51xocT7JohhPg@mail.gmail.com>

Works for me. Thx.
./\.

On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 11:30?AM Gerry Gebel via policy-charter <
policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:

> Hi -
>
> We are currently in the same time slot as the SIOP special topic call, so
> OIDF has asked us to move to a different time.
>
> On today's call it was suggested that we move to Tuesdays at 9am PT -
> please indicate whether that works for your schedule
>
> Thanks
> Gerry
> --
> policy-charter mailing list
> policy-charter at lists.openid.net
> https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
>


-- 
[image: This is Alexandre Babeanu's card. Their email is alex at 3edges.com.
Their phone number is +1 604 728 8130.]
<https://hihello.me/p/cda689b1-0378-4b9c-88cf-33a9bc8ef0c5>

-- 
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hereto, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain 
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From alex at 3edges.com  Thu Aug 10 18:40:48 2023
From: alex at 3edges.com (Alex Babeanu)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2023 11:40:48 -0700
Subject: [policy-charter] Updates to the charter doc
In-Reply-To: <CAGpv_qNBT_Htwup3fGhG8HQet2pVfS3ZWTBewwNXNPUkdaH1HA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANtBS9cU=f825490G60=89rom-jz40c_xdYkiqJqY_yeW3zgrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANtBS9cTdi-H71znQKFm9jcaX9rJEbB9APMGdJeo5hqSp7MnaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALkJ7sVL1Eh0W=SUEb3VuK5_LqwNbji4x3+drd-Qp-49+zLv4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFffDHhH+PnKpM6FKbeL8nWEN--4=LfRaddPYfqoKTPFQ+giJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALkJ7sWe1xuKU5B2+V+gAAobcWqUJ2KGNeKWaBLtgjVqyNB+hA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANtBS9empx42w50QitCO5uGHs9ukiqmq=rckWMHa=PAwUkYSRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOFyxENJ4ukYafJ5LiEUKb9x3ei-DHP_0dmY50toFPhhqvvZZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGpv_qP=rqib__kPG5=e3kkbdTCwKAq_AwxqY9cnBpuEtiwnGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOFyxEOv1XcuE18aC83K9HMA1MK0+bvRUv6Se1aJ5CSi7X+02w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGpv_qNBT_Htwup3fGhG8HQet2pVfS3ZWTBewwNXNPUkdaH1HA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOFyxENA2HL5t94_qk3SAe=L5L-t7NWadppXNnm3QsL4Z=DaHw@mail.gmail.com>

Seems ambitious indeed, when all the participants of this workgroup have
their own very different ways of doing things... For instance, we're using
pure graphs (not "tuples', actual vertices and edges). To me it's the best
approach of course. The only way to "top" this would be to use natural
language, imho.  Let's hear it from those who don't agree :)...

And anyway yet another language or methodology for authz is not in the
proposed charter scope.
That's my $0.02, waiting for others to chime in though...

./\.

On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 10:44?AM Aaron Campbell <acampbell at duosecurity.com>
wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 2:29?PM Alex Babeanu <alex at 3edges.com> wrote:
>
>> Re: " but I'd urge an evaluation of the existing technologies and choose
>> one to foster and build upon"
>> -- I strongly disagree!! Whatever we do should be tech-agnostic. Or are
>> you proposing to kill right away whichever company/org doesn't use your
>> "chosen" tech ??
>>
>> I think the idea is to build interop standards: whatever tech you use, we
>> need to be able to exchange data about AuthZ. So start top down instead of
>> bottom up.
>>
>
> That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that years of effort have already
> gone into building existing policy languages for effecting AuthZ, some of
> them more suited to standardization than others. For example, SQL first
> came out of IBM. And then became standardized. That created a common base
> layer for other tech to grow from.
>
> I agree w/ what Andrew Hughes said in the doc:
>
> DISCUSS: are we going to reconcile the different conceptual underpinnings
> of all the approaches? Seems ambitious.
>
> -Aaron
>


-- 
[image: This is Alexandre Babeanu's card. Their email is alex at 3edges.com.
Their phone number is +1 604 728 8130.]
<https://hihello.me/p/cda689b1-0378-4b9c-88cf-33a9bc8ef0c5>

-- 
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments 
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From acampbell at duosecurity.com  Thu Aug 10 19:04:50 2023
From: acampbell at duosecurity.com (Aaron Campbell)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2023 16:04:50 -0300
Subject: [policy-charter] new time/date for this group
In-Reply-To: <CAFffDHjRuuCfQPnohz71+muhvUvw_rmTa5upp4of07wEY-tmhw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFffDHjRuuCfQPnohz71+muhvUvw_rmTa5upp4of07wEY-tmhw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGpv_qMGsHUfPwR-oLUuX37ohGvVpGnX2znFuY6YBav5tR0ZWg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 3:30?PM Gerry Gebel via policy-charter <
policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:

> Hi -
>
> We are currently in the same time slot as the SIOP special topic call, so
> OIDF has asked us to move to a different time.
>
> On today's call it was suggested that we move to Tuesdays at 9am PT -
> please indicate whether that works for your schedule
>

This time works for me, thanks Gerry.

-Aaron
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From andrewhughes at pingidentity.com  Thu Aug 10 19:23:19 2023
From: andrewhughes at pingidentity.com (Andrew Hughes)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2023 12:23:19 -0700
Subject: [policy-charter] new time/date for this group
In-Reply-To: <CAGpv_qMGsHUfPwR-oLUuX37ohGvVpGnX2znFuY6YBav5tR0ZWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFffDHjRuuCfQPnohz71+muhvUvw_rmTa5upp4of07wEY-tmhw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGpv_qMGsHUfPwR-oLUuX37ohGvVpGnX2znFuY6YBav5tR0ZWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALS-csU246FtzijY+L-_gdmbZ0v1g54LAEyX9+u0c9V2rRDL8w@mail.gmail.com>

It works

On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 12:05 PM Aaron Campbell via policy-charter <
policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 3:30?PM Gerry Gebel via policy-charter <
> policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi -
>>
>> We are currently in the same time slot as the SIOP special topic call, so
>> OIDF has asked us to move to a different time.
>>
>> On today's call it was suggested that we move to Tuesdays at 9am PT -
>> please indicate whether that works for your schedule
>>
>
> This time works for me, thanks Gerry.
>
> -Aaron
> --
> policy-charter mailing list
> policy-charter at lists.openid.net
> https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
>
-- 
Andrew Hughes
Director, Identity Standards
Ping Identity
Signal/Mobile: +12508889474

-- 
_CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email may contain confidential and privileged 
material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review, use, 
distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited.? If you have 
received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately 
by e-mail and delete the message and any file attachments from your 
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From gerry at strata.io  Thu Aug 10 23:42:56 2023
From: gerry at strata.io (Gerry Gebel)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2023 16:42:56 -0700
Subject: [policy-charter] new time/date for this group
In-Reply-To: <CALS-csU246FtzijY+L-_gdmbZ0v1g54LAEyX9+u0c9V2rRDL8w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFffDHjRuuCfQPnohz71+muhvUvw_rmTa5upp4of07wEY-tmhw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGpv_qMGsHUfPwR-oLUuX37ohGvVpGnX2znFuY6YBav5tR0ZWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALS-csU246FtzijY+L-_gdmbZ0v1g54LAEyX9+u0c9V2rRDL8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFffDHiKO2f+WtZxLpWWGonQyCJqEnriNxSGgS-cfk=kWCjT+A@mail.gmail.com>

Mike - please update the calendar and move this call to Tuesdays at 9:00am
PT

Thanks,
Gerry

On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 12:23?PM Andrew Hughes via policy-charter <
policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:

> It works
>
> On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 12:05 PM Aaron Campbell via policy-charter <
> policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 3:30?PM Gerry Gebel via policy-charter <
>> policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi -
>>>
>>> We are currently in the same time slot as the SIOP special topic call,
>>> so OIDF has asked us to move to a different time.
>>>
>>> On today's call it was suggested that we move to Tuesdays at 9am PT -
>>> please indicate whether that works for your schedule
>>>
>>
>> This time works for me, thanks Gerry.
>>
>> -Aaron
>> --
>> policy-charter mailing list
>> policy-charter at lists.openid.net
>> https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
>>
> --
> Andrew Hughes
> Director, Identity Standards
> Ping Identity
> Signal/Mobile: +12508889474
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email may contain confidential and
> privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any
> review, use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited.
> If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender
> immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any file attachments from
> your computer. Thank you.*--
> policy-charter mailing list
> policy-charter at lists.openid.net
> https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
>
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From omri at aserto.com  Fri Aug 11 00:14:09 2023
From: omri at aserto.com (Omri Gazitt)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2023 17:14:09 -0700
Subject: [policy-charter] new time/date for this group
In-Reply-To: <CAFffDHiKO2f+WtZxLpWWGonQyCJqEnriNxSGgS-cfk=kWCjT+A@mail.gmail.com>
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Thanks Gerry!

On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 4:43?PM Gerry Gebel via policy-charter <
policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:

> Mike - please update the calendar and move this call to Tuesdays at 9:00am
> PT
>
> Thanks,
> Gerry
>
> On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 12:23?PM Andrew Hughes via policy-charter <
> policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>
>> It works
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 12:05 PM Aaron Campbell via policy-charter <
>> policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 3:30?PM Gerry Gebel via policy-charter <
>>> policy-charter at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi -
>>>>
>>>> We are currently in the same time slot as the SIOP special topic call,
>>>> so OIDF has asked us to move to a different time.
>>>>
>>>> On today's call it was suggested that we move to Tuesdays at 9am PT -
>>>> please indicate whether that works for your schedule
>>>>
>>>
>>> This time works for me, thanks Gerry.
>>>
>>> -Aaron
>>> --
>>> policy-charter mailing list
>>> policy-charter at lists.openid.net
>>> https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
>>>
>> --
>> Andrew Hughes
>> Director, Identity Standards
>> Ping Identity
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