[policy-charter] Admin Policy Push Group

Tue Jun 20 14:37:17 UTC 2023

Scope seems to be all over the place … I kind of need to do my own research (or perhaps it’s part of charter)  to better understand  what the similarities and differences and /or pro cons  between current implementations  - compared to what my own organization needs are for exchanging polices generated at multiple levels -organization and individual choice (which kind of implies the need of  roles to me)  Authorization at the Org most likely not enough …Ultimately the data holder is liable and will make that final decision.   Certainly the “sausage making” for tool of choice is out of scope but what is exchanged is most important.   Perhaps I am missing something.

This seems to be the short list from the original thread.  XACML, Open Policy Agent, Amazon Verified Permissions and other implementations. Are there others?  Graph GL?

From: policy-charter <policy-charter-bounces at lists.openid.net> on behalf of Omri Gazitt via policy-charter <policy-charter at lists.openid.net>
Date: Monday, June 19, 2023 at 5:51 PM
To: Policy Charter Mail List <policy-charter at lists.openid.net>
Cc: Omri Gazitt <omri at aserto.com>
Subject: Re: [policy-charter] Admin Policy Push Group
@Alex I think you and I are making an assumption that communicating relationships (data) changes between an administration point and a decision point is just as important as communicating policy changes. But that is not (yet) agreed upon.

On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 8:29 AM Alex Babeanu via policy-charter <policy-charter at lists.openid.net<mailto:policy-charter at lists.openid.net>> wrote:
On the ReBAC front, and to keep it simple, no matter what language/system we come up with, "relationships" should be prime citizens, and optional. Note also that relationships, like any other entities, can hold properties (for those of us using labelled property graphs). This should cater to all cases I think, and be simple enough. Don't need it? don't use it...

Also Re: Naming, does it have to be an acronym ?

Cheers,

./\.

On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 8:12 AM Gerry Gebel via policy-charter <policy-charter at lists.openid.net<mailto:policy-charter at lists.openid.net>> wrote:
@Omri - I agree with Andrew here that we should keep the scope more narrowly defined.

Some of what you describe (push vs. pull) will be specific to the target environment and not easily generalized.

That said, a separate work stream can be started if that is appropriate

Gerry

On Sun, Jun 18, 2023 at 5:05 PM Andrew Hughes via policy-charter <policy-charter at lists.openid.net<mailto:policy-charter at lists.openid.net>> wrote:
I prefer the most narrow scope possible. Otherwise we will never finish.

Other people will work with n the other parts.

On Sun, Jun 18, 2023 at 4:00 PM Omri Gazitt via policy-charter <policy-charter at lists.openid.net<mailto:policy-charter at lists.openid.net>> wrote:
One thing I'd like to put out there...

In a world where both policy and data are important parts of a decision, we should consider expanding the scope of what we believe should be pushed from an administration point to a decision point.  Specifically, with a ReBAC model (or a hybrid policy-as-code / policy-as-data model), changes in relationships between subjects and objects are as critical to communicate as policy changes.

If folks agree, then perhaps the name of the workstream should be generalized to "PAP-PDP group".

Additionally, there are two possible models to consider - Pull and Push. For example, OPA defines a pull model<https://www.openpolicyagent.org/docs/latest/management-bundles/> for a PDP to obtain policy updates from a policy bundle service.  In practice, a push model seems critical for real-world scenarios.

On Sun, Jun 18, 2023 at 2:54 PM Roland Baum via policy-charter <policy-charter at lists.openid.net<mailto:policy-charter at lists.openid.net>> wrote:

me too! :-D
Am 15.06.23 um 20:51 schrieb Omri Gazitt via policy-charter:
Me too

On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 10:35 AM Atul Tulshibagwale via policy-charter <policy-charter at lists.openid.net<mailto:policy-charter at lists.openid.net>> wrote:
Im in

On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 10:34 AM Vittorio Bertocci via policy-charter <policy-charter at lists.openid.net<mailto:policy-charter at lists.openid.net>> wrote:
Would love to be on it!

On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 10:33 David Brossard via policy-charter <policy-charter at lists.openid.net<mailto:policy-charter at lists.openid.net>> wrote:

This message originated outside your organization.

________________________________

Count me in too

On Thu, Jun 15, 2023, 10:30 AM Shayne Miel (smiel) via policy-charter <policy-charter at lists.openid.net<mailto:policy-charter at lists.openid.net>> wrote:
Please count me in for the Admin Policy Push group.

Thanks!
Shayne Miel

Error! Filename not specified.
[Image removed by sender.]
Shayne Miel
/ Principal Engineer (he, him, his)

smiel at cisco.com<mailto:smiel at cisco.com>

(919) 923-6230

cisco.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.cisco.com/site/us/en/products/security/index.html__;!!PwKahg!4zuqlwDjQsKy8apRVi9ImPprXSTXVrhXnrfmIhSUtDp3STR8J62s7zvfMsE7Z_yaCzNWpdSxS1yQ-Vb0CLNdfhklKja8Kb_WYdE$>

________________________________
From: policy-charter <policy-charter-bounces at lists.openid.net<mailto:policy-charter-bounces at lists.openid.net>> on behalf of Gerry Gebel via policy-charter <policy-charter at lists.openid.net<mailto:policy-charter at lists.openid.net>>
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2023 10:53 AM
To: Policy Charter Mail List <policy-charter at lists.openid.net<mailto:policy-charter at lists.openid.net>>
Cc: Gerry Gebel <gerry at strata.io<mailto:gerry at strata.io>>
Subject: [policy-charter] Admin Policy Push Group

Hi all -

Thanks to Andrew Hughes for leading the PEP-PDP Group and those that have expressed interest in pursuing that effort.

How about the Admin Policy Push work stream? Who is interested in participating?
Thanks,
Gerry
--
policy-charter mailing list
policy-charter at lists.openid.net<mailto:policy-charter at lists.openid.net>
https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter__;!!PwKahg!4zuqlwDjQsKy8apRVi9ImPprXSTXVrhXnrfmIhSUtDp3STR8J62s7zvfMsE7Z_yaCzNWpdSxS1yQ-Vb0CLNdfhklKja8RgFFZy8$>
--
policy-charter mailing list
policy-charter at lists.openid.net<mailto:policy-charter at lists.openid.net>
https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
--
policy-charter mailing list
policy-charter at lists.openid.net<mailto:policy-charter at lists.openid.net>
https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
--
policy-charter mailing list
policy-charter at lists.openid.net<mailto:policy-charter at lists.openid.net>
https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
--

[Image removed by sender.]<http://www.aserto.com/>

Omri Gazitt | CEO

Aserto<http://www.aserto.com/> Inc. | (425) 765-0079

--
policy-charter mailing list
policy-charter at lists.openid.net<mailto:policy-charter at lists.openid.net>
https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
--
policy-charter mailing list
policy-charter at lists.openid.net<mailto:policy-charter at lists.openid.net>
https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
--
Andrew Hughes
Director, Identity Standards
Ping Identity
Signal/Mobile: +12508889474

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any file attachments from your computer. Thank you.--
policy-charter mailing list
policy-charter at lists.openid.net<mailto:policy-charter at lists.openid.net>
https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
--
policy-charter mailing list
policy-charter at lists.openid.net<mailto:policy-charter at lists.openid.net>
https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter

--
[Image removed by sender. This is Alexandre Babeanu's card. Their email is alex at 3edges.com. Their phone number is +1 604 728 8130.]<https://hihello.me/p/cda689b1-0378-4b9c-88cf-33a9bc8ef0c5>

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments hereto, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or proprietary information.
--
policy-charter mailing list
policy-charter at lists.openid.net<mailto:policy-charter at lists.openid.net>
https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-charter
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openid.net/pipermail/policy-charter/attachments/20230620/d1346025/attachment-0001.html>