2009/9/21 Steven Livingstone P้rez <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:weblivz@hotmail.com">weblivz@hotmail.com</a>></span><br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div>I would have thought an IFrame injected into the page woudn't cause popup issues.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Injected iframes are a bad idea especially ones that ask you to enter your credentials.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Indeed, while the injected iframe approach has certainly usability benefits (i.e. no new windows to lose track of) they present untenable security issues that, ultimately, mean that they cannot be used.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Facebook has been somewhat erratic in its enforcement of the popup flow making exceptions for certain partners. The problem is not the good actors who implement the technology correctly, though, it's that users don't develop an expectation to look for the popup, which affords them certain security-enhancing signals, like the URL bar, the presence of the HTTPS indicator and so on.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Even if most people ignore these things, for those who *know* to inspect them, the popup is an order of magnitude more security-preserving.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div><br>Is the popups generally going to be new window instances? I'd be surprised if the is the suggested way.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think we'll go through a transitional period. The big OpenID provider would likely prefer the popup method which is less obtrusive than the full window redirect, which can be confusing for some users.</div>
<div><br></div><div>More usability research is needed here and that research needs to be shared with the wider community so that we understand what the typical user mental model is of signing in and whether they can comprehend why they're sent back to their provider, rather than logged in directly.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Chris</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><br>steven<br><a href="http://livz.org" target="_blank">http://livz.org</a><br>
<br><hr>Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 17:38:19 -0700<br>Subject: Re: Popup flow<br>From: <a href="mailto:chris.messina@gmail.com" target="_blank">chris.messina@gmail.com</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:openid-user-experience@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-user-experience@lists.openid.net</a><div>
<div></div><div class="h5"><br><br><br><br><div>On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Jonathan Coffman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jonathan.coffman@gmail.com" target="_blank">jonathan.coffman@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Are there concerns over users with ad-blockers or pop-up blockers and being able to reach the OpenID flow?</blockquote><div><br></div><div>There are some, yes. This needs to be widely tested, but we're able to get around (read: interact with correctly) because the pop-up is launched by user action, rather than automatically.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Facebook seems to use this method without a problem, so perhaps Luke has some insights.</div><div><br></div><div>Chris</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div>
<br>
<br>
On Sep 19, 2009, at 11:32 PM, Allen Tom wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Jonathan Coffman wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
In seeing Yahoo's announcement of their pop-up flow, and Google's previous migration -- is this quickly becoming the defacto standard?<br>
</blockquote>
Hi Jonathan,<br>
<br>
Yahoo's usability testing indicates that the new OpenID popup flow performs better than then old redirect flow, and this is also consistent with Facebook's experience with Connect.<br>
<br>
The popup flow is currently an extension, meaning that it's optional, and it's the RP's choice to invoke either the popup or redirect. If you have the resources to experiment with both flows in a production environment, definitely everyone would be very interested in the results.<br>
<br>
<blockquote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Some of my stakeholders are asking for a templated/co-branded experience so that users, when redirected, see a logo, etc from the RP on the sign-up/log-in page for our OP. Obviously, that's not too difficult to do but I feel like the whole argument might be overcome with a simplified OP design by utilizing the popup draft spec.<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
Section 6 in the Draft User Interface spec defines a mechanism for the RP to pass its logos to the OP. Showing the RP's logos to the user on the OP's approval/login screens definitely is very helpful to users, and feedback from our testers in our usability labs was overwhelmingly positive when we did this.<br>
<br>
Speaking on behalf of Yahoo, there are issues with displaying metadata about the RP that was not manually reviewed for correctness by the OP. For instance, the RP could be a malicious site that is pretending to be a trusted site, such as a bank. The malicious RP could misrepresent itself by passing the bank logo to the OP.<br>
<br>
Other OPs that are planning to supporting the RP Icons portion of the UI Extension may have other opinions about how important it is for OPs to manually verify the RP's logos before displaying them to the user.<br>
<br>
An alternative approach for having the RP pass metadata about itself to the OP (including icons, name, description) would be to use the OpenID OAuth Hybrid Extension, and have all the RP metadata bound to the RP's OAuth consumer_key. Most OAuth service providers usually have certain business/legal criteria to issue an OAuth consumer_key, and in Yahoo's case, business partners are allowed to have logos assocaited with their consumer key, and all of these logos are manually reviewed before being enabled.<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
Allen<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
user-experience mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:user-experience@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">user-experience@lists.openid.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-user-experience" target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-user-experience</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
user-experience mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:user-experience@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">user-experience@lists.openid.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-user-experience" target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-user-experience</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Chris Messina<br>Open Web Advocate<br><br>Personal: <a href="http://factoryjoe.com" target="_blank">http://factoryjoe.com</a><br>Follow me on Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/chrismessina" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/chrismessina</a><br>
<br>Citizen Agency: <a href="http://citizenagency.com" target="_blank">http://citizenagency.com</a><br>Diso Project: <a href="http://diso-project.org" target="_blank">http://diso-project.org</a><br>OpenID Foundation: <a href="http://openid.net" target="_blank">http://openid.net</a><br>
<br>This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ] private<br>
<br></div></div><div class="hm"><hr>Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. <a href="http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/" target="_blank">Get it now.</a></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
user-experience mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:user-experience@lists.openid.net">user-experience@lists.openid.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-user-experience" target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-user-experience</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Chris Messina<br>Open Web Advocate<br><br>Personal: <a href="http://factoryjoe.com">http://factoryjoe.com</a><br>Follow me on Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/chrismessina">http://twitter.com/chrismessina</a><br>
<br>Citizen Agency: <a href="http://citizenagency.com">http://citizenagency.com</a><br>Diso Project: <a href="http://diso-project.org">http://diso-project.org</a><br>OpenID Foundation: <a href="http://openid.net">http://openid.net</a><br>
<br>This email is: [ ] shareable [X] ask first [ ] private<br>