<html><head><base href="x-msg://223/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Having worked with both the OpenID and IETF IPR process, here is my summary of how they work:<div><br></div><div>In the OpenID process, all participants in a WG must agree to not assert any patents against an implementation. This motivates the WG to be inclusive of any entity that may have patents in the area.<div><br></div><div>In the IETF process, all participants must declare any patents they are aware of. This does not provide any rights to the patents, but does alert anyone implementing that there are patents. The other way for participants to deal with patents in the IETF is to state they have patents (they do not need to identify them) and issue a non-assert. This is typically what participants from large patent portfolios do in order to participate, and is equivalent to the OpenID process. </div><div><br></div><div>-- Dick</div><div><br><div><div>On 2010-07-16, at 7:59 AM, Paul E. Jones wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">John,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I hate to be the only one who disagrees with this assertion, but honestly most lawsuits I have had to deal with are initiated by those<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>not</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>engaged in some standardization effort and/or who purchased patents from companies who might have previously been engaged in the standardization effort.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I’d gladly accept a patent statement much like those submitted to the IETF for various RFCs. At least you know where the companies stand. It’s those lurking in the dark somewhere that are a problem. Worse, they’ll sometimes wait until the historical record is gone, making it even more challenging to prove that whatever they claim in a patent wasn’t already disclosed. And, with the US patent process the way it is, you can introduce something today and I can file a patent today. I could claim I invented it a year ago and I might even be awarded the patent. Unless you could<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>prove</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>that you had disclosed it publicly at least a year prior, then the patent would be valid.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">The patent system is a bit of a mess, to say the least.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">So, while I admire the effort to make OpenID free and I’m supportive of that effort, I’d personally prefer a simple IPR process where companies declare their IPR, etc. It works for the IETF and other organizations, so why not follow the same model?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Paul<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding-top: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 4pt; "><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:openid-specs-bounces@lists.openid.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">openid-specs-bounces@lists.openid.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:openid-specs-bounces@lists.openid.net]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Bradley<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, July 12, 2010 9:58 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Eric Sachs<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:openid-specs@lists.openid.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">openid-specs@lists.openid.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: Connect WG?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">I know people get frustrated because they want to just do stuff.<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">However the IPR process and agreements protect everyone from someone coming along later and asserting patents after people have built products.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Everyone who wants to work on Connect should start the process of joining the WG now and not wait.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">John B.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">On 2010-07-12, at 9:30 PM, Eric Sachs wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">>> <span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">People who work for large companies may take some time to get approva</span></span><o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">To put it mildly :-(</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 3:37 PM, John Bradley <<a href="mailto:john.bradley@wingaa.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">john.bradley@wingaa.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">The charter was approved.<br><br>The next step is for people to get there IPR agreements in and start the work.<br><br>I don't know if David has his in yet.<br><br>People who work for large companies may take some time to get approval.<br><br>Regards<br>John B.<o:p></o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br>On 2010-07-12, at 4:39 PM, Dan Brickley wrote:<br><br>> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Eric Sachs <<a href="mailto:esachs@google.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">esachs@google.com</a>> wrote:<br>>> A whole bunch of Yahoo and Google folks are on vacation in July and August,<br>>> and during the time they are working they are probably going to focus on<br>>> finalizing OAuth 2.0. So my bet is we won't have a lot of activity on the<br>>> mailing list until late August. However David Recordon said he might have<br>>> time in a few weeks to start pulling together some material.<br>><br>> Backing up a bit, ... was there a management decision in the<br>> Foundation to proceed with a Connect WG? Or that mailing list activity<br>> would be towards putting together a refined proposal? How do things<br>> work here?<br>><br>> Dan<o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">> _______________________________________________<br>> specs mailing list<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:specs@lists.openid.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">specs@lists.openid.net</a><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>specs mailing list<br><a href="mailto:specs@lists.openid.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">specs@lists.openid.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs</a><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></html>