<html><head><base href="x-msg://735/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">The IPR process can only deal with participants in the Work group.<div><br></div><div>We can't do much about the overall problem with the US patent process.</div><div><br></div><div>We came close to having an issue with openID 2.0, where one of the participants held relevant patents.</div><div><br></div><div>It is better to get the people contributing to the spec to agree upfront that they will provide royalty free licences to any applicable patents they hold.</div><div><br></div><div>We are dealing with companies like MS, Google, Yahoo, AOL, Facebook and others who hold large portfolios.</div><div><br></div><div>I don't think our IPR process is unreasonable. People just need to agree upfront.</div><div><br></div><div>John B.</div><div><br><div><div>On 2010-07-16, at 10:59 AM, Paul E. Jones wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">John,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I hate to be the only one who disagrees with this assertion, but honestly most lawsuits I have had to deal with are initiated by those<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>not</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>engaged in some standardization effort and/or who purchased patents from companies who might have previously been engaged in the standardization effort.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I’d gladly accept a patent statement much like those submitted to the IETF for various RFCs. At least you know where the companies stand. It’s those lurking in the dark somewhere that are a problem. Worse, they’ll sometimes wait until the historical record is gone, making it even more challenging to prove that whatever they claim in a patent wasn’t already disclosed. And, with the US patent process the way it is, you can introduce something today and I can file a patent today. I could claim I invented it a year ago and I might even be awarded the patent. Unless you could<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>prove</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>that you had disclosed it publicly at least a year prior, then the patent would be valid.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">The patent system is a bit of a mess, to say the least.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">So, while I admire the effort to make OpenID free and I’m supportive of that effort, I’d personally prefer a simple IPR process where companies declare their IPR, etc. It works for the IETF and other organizations, so why not follow the same model?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Paul<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding-top: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 4pt; "><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:openid-specs-bounces@lists.openid.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">openid-specs-bounces@lists.openid.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:openid-specs-bounces@lists.openid.net]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Bradley<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, July 12, 2010 9:58 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Eric Sachs<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:openid-specs@lists.openid.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">openid-specs@lists.openid.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: Connect WG?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">I know people get frustrated because they want to just do stuff.<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">However the IPR process and agreements protect everyone from someone coming along later and asserting patents after people have built products.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Everyone who wants to work on Connect should start the process of joining the WG now and not wait.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">John B.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">On 2010-07-12, at 9:30 PM, Eric Sachs wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">>> <span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">People who work for large companies may take some time to get approva</span></span><o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">To put it mildly :-(</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 3:37 PM, John Bradley <<a href="mailto:john.bradley@wingaa.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">john.bradley@wingaa.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">The charter was approved.<br><br>The next step is for people to get there IPR agreements in and start the work.<br><br>I don't know if David has his in yet.<br><br>People who work for large companies may take some time to get approval.<br><br>Regards<br>John B.<o:p></o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br>On 2010-07-12, at 4:39 PM, Dan Brickley wrote:<br><br>> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Eric Sachs <<a href="mailto:esachs@google.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">esachs@google.com</a>> wrote:<br>>> A whole bunch of Yahoo and Google folks are on vacation in July and August,<br>>> and during the time they are working they are probably going to focus on<br>>> finalizing OAuth 2.0. So my bet is we won't have a lot of activity on the<br>>> mailing list until late August. However David Recordon said he might have<br>>> time in a few weeks to start pulling together some material.<br>><br>> Backing up a bit, ... was there a management decision in the<br>> Foundation to proceed with a Connect WG? Or that mailing list activity<br>> would be towards putting together a refined proposal? How do things<br>> work here?<br>><br>> Dan<o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">> _______________________________________________<br>> specs mailing list<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:specs@lists.openid.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">specs@lists.openid.net</a><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>