+1, I am in complete agreement with your observation.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 4:13 AM, Phillip Hallam-Baker <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hallam@gmail.com">hallam@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Users may not know what they want.<br>
<br>
But they sure have told us that they absolutely do not want URIs as<br>
user identifiers. They do not want that any more than they want fire<br>
that can be fitted nasally.<br>
<br>
They have also demonstrated a complete lack of interest in XRIs as identifiers.<br>
<br>
<br>
I am certainly not arguing against these positions as "nobody has ever<br>
tried it, so don't even bother offering". I am arguing against them on<br>
the basis that they were tried against my advice, that the results of<br>
that trial were complete failure in precisely the way that I predicted<br>
and that we should on absolutely no account attempt this experiment<br>
yet again and waste yet more time and the patience of adopters.<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 6:35 PM, SitG Admin<br>
<<a href="mailto:sysadmin@shadowsinthegarden.com">sysadmin@shadowsinthegarden.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> I need to borrow your hat for a minute, Peter :)<br>
><br>
> At 4:00 PM -0400 5/13/10, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> For thirty years Internet users have understood their user identifier<br>
>> to be username@domain.<br>
>><br>
>> I see absolutely zero interest from end users in being identified in<br>
>> any other way. The attempts to provide them with this 'flexibility;<br>
>> are unwanted and unnecessary.<br>
><br>
> Have you studied marketing much? The ideal of "ask users what they want and<br>
> give it to them" hasn't worked out perfectly, because it turns out users<br>
> don't always *know* what they want - especially when they aren't familiar<br>
> with it yet (think the Aero Chair).<br>
><br>
> To address your assertion directly, though: you're presenting one side of an<br>
> idealogical argument, from the "status quo" - *of course* such flexibility<br>
> isn't necessary, because the only thing it offers over the necessity of<br>
> maintaining that status quo is change, which would be disruptive. The flip<br>
> side of this argument is that, if OpenID is to idealogically represent the<br>
> user as the centre of their own identity ("user-centric") rather than as a<br>
> wholly owned subsidiary of their patron website ("@domain", naturally<br>
> requiring DNS), then it has the right to help users better understand their<br>
> rights and options.<br>
><br>
> As an idealogical argument, it works; where it falls flat is in the<br>
> technological arena (ideals against practical reality? really?), and I wish<br>
> you'd present more of those (backward compatibility was an *excellent*<br>
> point) instead of relying so much on the *implicit* perfection of a<br>
> long-entrenched model.<br>
><br>
> I repeat: you made a *compelling* technical argument. It's just that "nobody<br>
> has ever tried it, so don't even bother offering" detracts from what you're<br>
> saying.<br>
><br>
> I will make one observation - those earlier criticisms of OpenID that it's<br>
> no better than the many past (failed) attempts? If we strive to provide<br>
> nothing more than those other tries did, OpenID really *will* be no<br>
> different from them.<br>
><br>
>> The only new mechanism is part 3<br>
><br>
> What version of the charter's draft are you looking at? I don't see:<br>
><br>
>> 2) The resolution protocol for the domain part of the user identifier<br>
>> is totally independent of any application protocol, including HTTP, it<br>
>> uses DNS and only DNS to resolve the DNS name.<br>
><br>
> I don't see this mentioned *anywhere*. Has there been an update?<br>
><br>
> -Shade takes off Peter's hat and hands it back<br>
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><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div><font color="#888888">--<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><a href="http://hi.im/santosh">http://hi.im/santosh</a><br><br><br>