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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Well, I’m not going to argue a bit with you on that point,
but I nearly got shot some time ago for daring to suggest that OpenID needs to
use something like email IDs. When I inquired more recently and was referred
to the work on Webfinger, so I gathered that folks were having a change of
heart.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>And, I think Webfinger is great. I see it as a way of
getting the benefit from the existing OpenID spec and growing number of sites
that support it, without having to change the existing protocol. I can
also think of a lot of other interesting uses for webfinger.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>There is definitely a benefit to having a separate OpenID identifier,
though, as it allows ones email provider and identity provider to be different
entities. So, the user ought to be able to specify in the Google profile
pages, for example, what his/her OpenID identifier is. That’s why I
think it’s important for the RP to maintain the OpenID identifier
internally and why it’s best to have this in some form that’s human-acceptable
form.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If designed properly, I think the UI can minimize the complexity
and confusion. For the more technically-challenged, they can just enter
their email address and “it just works”. For those who care
to understand a little more, they’ll learn that they can specify the
identity URI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Before we can do anything, though, we at least need to settle on
the link relation value for OpenID URIs published via Webfinger. Is this
a job for the OpenID experts with perhaps a new spec published on openid.net,
or is this something we should do through the IETF alongside the webfinger
document (that does not exist, yet, but I’m sure is coming “soon”).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John Panzer
[mailto:jpanzer@google.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 23, 2010 7:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul E. Jones<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Chris Messina; Dirk Balfanz; webfinger@googlegroups.com;
openid-specs@lists.openid.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: WebFinger at Google<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>A fundamental premise of Webfinger is that there are a lot
of users -- today, probably the majority of the Internet -- who are comfortable
with and know their email address (or email like identifier, like a Jabber ID),
who have no interest in acquiring an HTTP identifier as well, and in fact an
extra HTTP identifier is a hindrance to them using the technology. So,
the desire to avoid the HTTP identifier in a user visible context derives from
that premise. And a login ID is definitely user visible; it's how you
show a user who they're currently logged in as, for example.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Paul E. Jones <<a
href="mailto:paulej@packetizer.com">paulej@packetizer.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0
style='border-collapse:collapse'>
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padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;min-height:115.5pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:5.85pt'>Note that this means the user would not be logged in as <a
href="mailto:bob@gmail.com" target="_blank">bob@gmail.com</a>, but instead as
<a href="https://www.google.com/profiles/3234234234234234" target="_blank">https://www.google.com/profiles/3234234234234234</a>.
(Since step 6 doesn't know anything about steps 1-5.) I think
this has obvious usability issues.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:5.85pt'>Note that the OP cannot return <a
href="mailto:acct%3Abob@gmail.com" target="_blank">acct:bob@gmail.com</a> as
the claimed_id because the claimed_id has to be an openid, and under this
proposal <a href="mailto:acct%3Abob@gmail.com" target="_blank">acct:bob@gmail.com</a>
isn't an OpenID. So the RP _might_ be able to retain both the entered
(pre-normalized) identifier and the final claimed_id, and display the former
to the user and the user's friends, but it seems complicated and unwieldy.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I’m not really sure what to do
about the fact that the <i>real</i> OpenID identifier is something nearly
impossible to remember. Perhaps one might argue that “that’s
not the way it’s supposed to be.” :-) Shouldn’t the
OpenID ID’s – even as HTTP(S) URIs – still be somewhat
memorable? That said, does it really matter? If the user always logs in
with an email ID that is converted using Webfinger into the real OpenID ID, the
process is always the same.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I would strongly suggest not trying to
hide the OpenID ID or make it hard to remember. Why not <a
href="https://openid.google.com/bob" target="_blank">https://openid.google.com/bob</a>?
That’s likely easier to remember. So, is your concern with the user
having to potentially remember two IDs, or the fact that one is impossible to
remember? :-)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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