Native application SSO Working Group

Tue Jul 2 18:15:35 UTC 2013

Correct and feedback from the specs list can and should influence the final charters scope.

I agree that we need to consider how a agent would work with multiple authorization servers rather than being hardcoded to only one.

Google's play store is an example of a authorization agent that is getting ether access tokens for Google API, or id_token/assertions for 3rd party API.

At the moment it is up to the app in the 3rd party case to decide if it wants to use the id_token as a access token or in a JWT assertion flow at a 3rd party AS to get a access token.

I think the changes we made to connect to support the use of id_tokens as JWT allows us some flexibility. 

In some cases the AZA might perform the function of trading a id_token/assertion to a 3rd party AS and getting back a access token to give to the app.

I think the charter should allow for all of those scenarios,  though the WG may decide to only support a subset of options in a specification.

John B.

On 2013-07-02, at 1:55 PM, Anthony Nadalin <tonynad at microsoft.com> wrote:

> Just saying that ultimatly the WG decides what the work product is regardless of input but constrained by the charter  
> 
> Sent from my Windows Phone
> From: Paul Madsen
> Sent: ‎7/‎2/‎2013 10:26 AM
> To: Anthony Nadalin
> Cc: Torsten Lodderstedt; Paul Madsen; John Bradley; ashishjain at vmware.com; openid-specs at lists.openid.net
> Subject: Re: Native application SSO Working Group
> 
> Hi Tony, not sure I understand your point.
> 
> Are you saying that we (the proposers of the new WG) *technically* needn't account for feedback such as Torsten's in this review cycle?
> 
> Paul
> 
> On 7/2/13 1:03 PM, Anthony Nadalin wrote:
>> Since this is slated to be an OpenID WG, it’s what the WG wants to do.
>>  
>> From: openid-specs-bounces at lists.openid.net [mailto:openid-specs-bounces at lists.openid.net] On Behalf Of Torsten Lodderstedt
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 9:53 AM
>> To: Paul Madsen
>> Cc: John Bradley; ashishjain at vmware.com; openid-specs at lists.openid.net
>> Subject: Re: Native application SSO Working Group
>>  
>> Hi Paul,
>> 
>> got it :-) Would it make sense to add this assumption to the charter? 
>> 
>> Does this mean:
>> - a single AZA manages access to multiple authz servers?
>> - an app needs to be able to register its authz server/idp at the AZA?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Torsten.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Paul Madsen <pmadsen at pingidentity.com> schrieb:
>> Hi Torsten, wrt the possibility of an id_token being used against a 'home' IdP, the current model is that it would be the AZA that would perform this exchange, not the native app itself - this because the overarching assumption being that the AZA should do as much of the heavy lifting as possible - and thereby simplify life for the native apps.
>> 
>> But that is separate I think from the use case of an native app wanting to consume an id_token directly (for access control, customization etc) and so i will look at charter to make sure this scenario is supported.
>> 
>> paul
>> 
>> On 7/2/13 11:31 AM, Torsten Lodderstedt wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I agree with Nat on this use case. Another one is that the app wants to use the id_token as credential on its "home" IDP (probably via JWT bearer token profile). This is more or less 3rd party login for apps.
>> 
>> regards,
>> Torsten.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Nat Sakimura <sakimura at gmail.com> schrieb:
>> Yes. If the app wants the identity information to evaluate its own access control, then it would probably want to know about the user identity (i.e., set of attributes related to the entity), and id_token is the right thing. 
>>  
>> When I was talking to some law enforcement people in EU, they were talking similar things. Right now, we do not have any location data defined in the claims, but we may also want to do so in such cases. 
>>  
>> Nat
>>  
>> 2013/7/3 Paul Madsen <paulmadsen at rogers.com>
>> Hi Nat, the current AZA model does not preclude an access token being formatted as an id_token.
>> 
>> I believe Torsten was conjecturing that there was potential value in an id_token being delivered to a native app in addition to an access token (whether formatted as id_token or not)
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> paul
>>  
>>  
>> On 7/2/13 10:53 AM, Nat Sakimura wrote:
>> I actually do see some utility in the access token in the format of ID Token. 
>> It can give appropriate audience restriction etc. 
>>  
>> 2013/7/2 Paul Madsen <paulmadsen at rogers.com>
>> Hi Torsten, the current model is that the Authorization Agent (AZA) may itself obtain an id_token and use it to obtain an access token, but that only access tokens would be 'handed over' by the AZA to its constituent native apps.
>> 
>> Are you proposing that there may be value in allowing the AZA to also hand over id_tokens (suitably targeted) as well?
>> 
>> paul
>> 
>> On 7/1/13 1:38 PM, Torsten Lodderstedt wrote:
>> Hi John,
>> 
>> I interpreted the text of the charter the other way around, so a client would be able to use an(y) id_token (as a credential) to obtain an access token. I'm fine if the mechanism is intended to support id_token issuance.
>> 
>> regards,
>> Torsten.
>> 
>>  Am 01.07.2013 15:06, schrieb John Bradley:
>> 
>> Hi Torsten,
>>  
>> In point 3 the charter talks about using id_tokens to get access tokens.
>>  
>> So it is imagined that the mechanism would issue id_tokens likely along the lines that Google is doing for the play store by having a 3rd party as an audience and using "azp" to indicate the client the token was issued to.   We don't want to be too specific on the solution in the charter.
>>  
>> If you think something needs to be added let me know.
>>  
>> John B.
>>  
>> On 2013-07-01, at 2:17 AM, Torsten Lodderstedt <torsten at lodderstedt.net> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> it would be great to have such a mechanism across platforms!
>> 
>> I'm wondering whether the mechanism should issue id tokens as well. Right now it seems to focus on access tokens.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Torsten.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> John Bradley <ve7jtb at ve7jtb.com> schrieb:
>> The enclosed Work Group Charter is being sent to the Specs Council for review in anticipation of chartering the Group.
>>  
>> It is best have this activity under the foundation IPR as soon as possible.
>>  
>> Regards
>> John B.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
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>> 
>>  
>> -- 
>> Nat Sakimura (=nat)
>> Chairman, OpenID Foundation
>> http://nat.sakimura.org/
>> @_nat_en
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> -- 
>> Nat Sakimura (=nat)
>> Chairman, OpenID Foundation
>> http://nat.sakimura.org/
>> @_nat_en
>>  
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