Problem with nonces and HTTP GET
Nat Sakimura
n-sakimura at nri.co.jp
Wed Jan 27 23:44:04 UTC 2010
Actually, we have created artifact binding implementation based on the
draft that I showed you guys at IIW. We now have ones for Java, Python,
PHP, and we are doing Ruby now. Java extended openid4java, and Python
and PHP extended JanRain. The same will be true for Ruby.
They work nicely, and we are going to be doing experiments with Japanese
mobile telcos in February.
As to the timing for specing, I am going to be submitting WG proposal
soon. I have the first draft to go with it, and I do not foresee too
much open issues with them, so it should not take too long to bake the
spec, hopefully. It actually is a very small spec, so it might finish
sooner than AX 1.1.
For those of you who are interested in Artifact Binding, please start
processing your Contribution Agreement, so that we can start the real
work without delay.
Nat Sakimura (=nat)
(2010/01/28 8:01), Allen Tom wrote:
> At least with regards to HuffPo -- we ended up removing attributes
> from the request to get under the 2KB url limit, which eliminated the
> security warning since we can return the response via GET instead of POST.
>
> At least in the near term, I'd like to compact AX so that we can
> squeeze in more data -- we should be able to do this for AX 1.1. OPs
> can also implement this internal artifact mechanism to switch from
> HTTPS to HTTP before returning the data.
>
> In the longer term, some form of Artifact Binding would probably be
> better, but I guess this would take longer to implement.
>
> Allen
>
>
>
> On 1/22/10 10:59 AM, "Brian Kissel" <bkissel at janrain.com> wrote:
>
> +1 Allen, here's what I get on HuffPo, not very compelling and
> probably a trigger to "Cancel" to most users. We need to fix this
> ASAP!
>
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Brian
> *___________
>
> Brian Kissel <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/0/10/254>
> *CEO - JanRain, Inc.
> bkissel at janrain.com
> Mobile: 503.342.2668 | Fax: 503.296.5502
> 519 SW 3rd Ave. Suite 600 Portland, OR 97204
>
> */Increase registrations, engage users, and grow your brand with
> RPX. Learn more at /**/www.rpxnow.com <http://www.rpxnow.com/>
> /*
>
> *From:* openid-specs-bounces at lists.openid.net
> [mailto:openid-specs-bounces at lists.openid.net] *On Behalf Of
> *Allen Tom
> *Sent:* Friday, January 22, 2010 10:43 AM
> *To:* Andrew Arnott; John Bradley; Breno de Medeiros; specs
> *Subject:* Re: Problem with nonces and HTTP GET
>
> The SSL security warning is a really terrible UX, and I agree that
> it doesn't make sense to warn on POST but not on GET.
>
> Yahoo is running into the 2KB limit (and the associated SSL
> warning) with alarming frequency and it's really hurting OpenID
> relative to the proprietary SSO solutions.
>
> For a real live example of how the giant AX names are hurting
> OpenID, see http://www.huffingtonpost.com -- click on the Login
> link, then the "Connect with Yahoo" button. This kicks off the
> Hybrid OpenID+Oauth+AX flow which requires a POST response --
> forcing the user to click through a security warning to complete
> the sign in flow. The non-OpenID SSO choices
> (Facebook/Twitter/GFC) do not have this issue.
>
> With regards to changing browsers to not display SSL warnings for
> POST, or relying on smart OpenID clients -- we really need a
> solution right now, since the proprietary alternatives are rapidly
> being adopted.
>
> WRT the nonce -- I think it would make more sense for RPs to just
> check the timestamp, and allow replay for a "narrow" window, like
> 10 minutes. There are many legitimate reasons why a request could
> be replayed -- intermediate proxy servers might do weird things,
> the user might hit reload/back/forward etc.
>
> Allen
>
>
> On 1/22/10 10:06 AM, "Andrew Arnott" <andrewarnott at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ideally we could use POST, but avoid the browser warning that
> information is crossing the SSL world into the non-SSL world.
> This might be arguable anyway since sending information can be
> done with GET or POST, so why warn for POST and not for GET? If
> we can get browsers to not warn for POST we're gold.
>
> Alternatively, and perhaps more likely, if we're moving in the
> direction of smart client browser (plugins), and these have been
> shown to benefit from extensions to the OpenID spec, perhaps we
> can leverage these to always use POST without displaying the
> warning to the user somehow.
> --
> Andrew Arnott
> "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to
> the death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 9:14 AM, John Bradley
> <john.bradley at wingaa.com> wrote:
> The big problem with POST is RP's that use non-ssl endpoints.
>
> One possibility is that the IdP could look at the return_to and
> discover if it is safe to use POST.
>
> In SAML SSO POST is the most common way to return the token.
>
> The other option is artifact binding. That way the nonce is not
> in the GET, though you probably wind up with the same effect if
> the RP tries to resolve the artifact more than once.
>
> John B.
> On 2010-01-22, at 12:39 PM, Andrew Arnott wrote:
> HTTP GET is supposed to be completely effect-free on the server.
> But nonces in OpenID messages violate that aspect of the HTTP
> spec, since any subsequent GET with the same positive assertion
> will (or should) fail. I speculate that some random login
> failures on StackOverflow
> <http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/32247/cant-login-to-so-with-openid-the-signature-verification-failed/36583#36583>
> may be caused because a browser, an accelerator plugin, or a
> proxy attempted to repeat the assertion-carrying GET request
> (since that's supposed to be safe), and a subsequent request is
> the one whose response is displayed in the browser, failing user
> login.
> <http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/32247/cant-login-to-so-with-openid-the-signature-verification-failed/36583#36583>
>
> POST is a better fit with the HTTP spec for how the message is
> actually processed on the server. I know lately we've been
> looking for ways to cram more data into < 2KB payloads so we can
> get off POST and onto GET since the user experience is better.
> But I wonder if we can put our heads together and figure out how
> to have our cake and eat it too with this nonce problem. This
> error doesn't come up often, but it can come up, apparently does
> come up, and is a natural side-effect of the way OpenID communicates.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> --
> Andrew Arnott
> "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to
> the death your right to say it." - S. G. Tallentyre
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