<div dir="ltr">Hi all,<br><div>Here are the notes from today's meeting. They are also stored <a href="https://hackmd.io/@oidf-wg-sse/wg-meeting-20230919">here</a>:</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks to those who attended,</div><div>Atul</div><div><br></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><span><div dir="ltr" style="margin-left:0pt" align="left"><table style="border:none;border-collapse:collapse"><colgroup><col width="142"><col width="482"></colgroup><tbody><tr style="height:0pt"><td style="vertical-align:middle;padding:-9.432pt -9.432pt -9.432pt -9.432pt;overflow:hidden"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><a href="https://sgnl.ai" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Work Sans",sans-serif;color:rgb(17,85,204);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="border:none;display:inline-block;overflow:hidden;width:137px;height:68px"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/aO7jB_JqOxA0tVDXsAotNQnsfEkxEORgtkVnVFrmkR7O8j3B4lbbRsGFuprzQhfDmri2YH8_dnjPiZnGMZxIcT9xRcdY6rYm-xGophLkgvl_v8istAefyh4qkSVINQtPfcmq5BZiKbfFHmursSUHyll1jEWBTd--nw26MIMKd86Br32rGZkvJwnEED_nzQ" width="137" height="68" style="margin-left:0px;margin-top:0px"></span></span></a></p></td><td style="vertical-align:top;padding:5pt 5pt 5pt 5pt;overflow:hidden"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.44;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Work Sans",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Atul Tulshibagwale</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.44;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Work Sans",sans-serif;color:rgb(102,102,102);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">CTO </span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><font size="1"><span style="font-family:"Work Sans",sans-serif;color:rgb(17,85,204);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="border:none;display:inline-block;overflow:hidden;width:20px;height:27px"><a href="https://linkedin.com/in/tulshi" target="_blank"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/ezm4lDcLtajK4RMqqHALoRgXyaC4HRlw0wWsR2Jvms0V9Wrxr3x5G66zsUrYpRXyeJ3RwLS3GdKUwO0Ui5mXPodSkUx8Xsarf_vj6WlJ05Y1qJoMFTlCZnEgtHvlJ7_7Dr7zWNjkvf3nMW9u1P5ye76SeHgz2QqGQ_rm-sjqYOS-vH1UZL7Yiewi4UO3Qw" width="20" height="27" style="margin-left:0px;margin-top:0px"></a> </span></span><span style="font-family:"Work Sans",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="border:none;display:inline-block;overflow:hidden;width:20px;height:27px"><a href="https://twitter.com/zirotrust" target="_blank"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/HAnAvykj318aQf5zTUZkjIJDtwelDecFi5d-idBrpUDBj7aKTdup5Mfia6UIbXTAP46zg7gigNnroQ9he3j81Sf9qCRRSS-w_nZ3oSXJnYLbPlCXgt6IqoifgHXETuJSRvFIZRIdn_aAbtp8ilKFyIVuTXjVe6cNAfXc5KZNwJeYinwfZZxVvHHaR5uIdQ" width="20" height="27" style="margin-left:0px;margin-top:0px"></a> </span></span><a href="mailto:atul@sgnl.ai" target="_blank"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/63PpVJLMybZyfD61JVu0TVH_KkP_IhneeBpDNvbd1KeSFJn6KZzWCgp4hFbrTrIxfksYyM-_wOjNKbjEhSQ2khRXVI3XKcwABLNLI_bFjkN0_NgVoijs_nIRcVJKeQm0s0MRdtkUkCOp5Omyv1faqcNiQxGEUyAvmE9HkeeQCeHa-LxleK0oHSAyQrDY6g" width="21" height="21" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial;white-space:pre-wrap;margin-left:0px;margin-top:0px"></a></font></p></td></tr></tbody></table><br></div><div dir="ltr" style="margin-left:0pt" align="left"><h1 class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" id="gmail-WG-Meeting-2023-09-19" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 16px;font-family:inherit;line-height:1.25;color:inherit;padding-bottom:0.3em;border-bottom:1px solid rgb(238,238,238)"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">WG Meeting: 2023-09-19</span></h1><h2 class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" id="gmail-Agenda" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:inherit;line-height:1.25;color:inherit;margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-bottom:0.3em;border-bottom:1px solid rgb(238,238,238)"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/CKKYvT1YSCqgm5iM23aRiQ?view#Agenda" title="Agenda" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Agenda</span></h2><ul class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-left:2em"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><a href="https://github.com/openid/sharedsignals/issues/116" target="_blank" rel="noopener" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Issue 116</span></a></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><a href="https://github.com/openid/sharedsignals/pull/117" target="_blank" rel="noopener" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">PR 117 Discussion on empty </span><code style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:Menlo,Monaco,Consolas,"Courier New",monospace;font-size:13.6px;padding:0.2em 0px;background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0.04);border-radius:3px;margin:0px;color:inherit">events_requested</code></a></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><a href="https://github.com/openid/sharedsignals/pull/82" target="_blank" rel="noopener" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Resolution on sub_id vs subject in PR #82</span></a></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"></li></ul><h2 class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" id="gmail-Attendees" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:inherit;line-height:1.25;color:inherit;margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-bottom:0.3em;border-bottom:1px solid rgb(238,238,238)"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/CKKYvT1YSCqgm5iM23aRiQ?view#Attendees" title="Attendees" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Attendees</span></h2><ul class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-left:2em"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Atul Tulshibagwale (SGNL)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Phil Hunt (Independent ID)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Mike Kiser (SailPoint)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Shayne Miel (Cisco)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Sean O’Dell (independent)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Yair Sarig (VMWare)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Nick Wooler (Cisco)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Nancy Cam Winget (Cisco)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Tim Cappalli (Microsoft)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Edmund Jay ()</span></li></ul><h2 class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" id="gmail-Notes" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:inherit;line-height:1.25;color:inherit;margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-bottom:0.3em;border-bottom:1px solid rgb(238,238,238)"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/CKKYvT1YSCqgm5iM23aRiQ?view#Notes" title="Notes" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Notes</span></h2><h3 class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" id="gmail-Updates-to-the-Transmitter-Configuration-Metadata-Issue-116" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:inherit;line-height:1.25;color:inherit;margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;font-size:1.25em"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/CKKYvT1YSCqgm5iM23aRiQ?view#Updates-to-the-Transmitter-Configuration-Metadata-Issue-116" title="Updates-to-the-Transmitter-Configuration-Metadata-Issue-116" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Updates to the Transmitter Configuration Metadata </span><a href="https://github.com/openid/sharedsignals/issues/116" target="_blank" rel="noopener" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Issue #116</span></a></h3><ul class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-left:2em"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Atul) Change implies we’re describing a Receiver</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Phil) Didn’t want to make a breaking change, but I’d like to describe something that is both a Receiver and a Transmitter. This is why I’ve only proposed a new delivery method supported and not changed </span><code style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:Menlo,Monaco,Consolas,"Courier New",monospace;font-size:13.6px;padding:0.2em 0px;background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0.04);border-radius:3px;margin:0px;color:inherit">transmitter_configuration</code></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Phil) I’m facing this in my SCIM server implementation. I need the server to be both a Transmitter and Receiver</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Atul) Does this make the spec a little confusing because the spec as it stands does not provide a way to describe a Receiver. Adding Receiver details in a Transmitter Configuration Metadata may confuse readers</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Sean) An ACK for a client and an ACK for a SCIM server is different(?)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Sean) Need to understand the SCIM use case better. Is the SCIM server both a SCIM server and a client?</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Atul) While this is important, I would like to move this to post draft-02, so that people starting to implement can work on draft-02 instead of draft-01</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Phil) We are trying to lock down a relationship by way of this protocol. If you don’t set up a Receiver right now, we will have a breaking change later</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Phil) I have to do this, and I will implement it a certain way, but</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Shayne) The reason we have an API for Transmitters is because some other entity coming to the Transmitter to receive signals. It may not be the case the other way around</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Phil) Is this a “push only” perspective? In the current spec the Transmitter has to start first, and then the Receiver</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Tim) We are at risk of people not considering SSF because we are not making progress. We need to draw a line somewhere, and get a new draft out.</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Atul) We can keep the PR open and consider it after draft-02 is proposed for vote</span></li></ul><h3 class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" id="gmail-PR-117-Discussion-on-empty-events_requested" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:inherit;line-height:1.25;color:inherit;margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;font-size:1.25em"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/CKKYvT1YSCqgm5iM23aRiQ?view#PR-117-Discussion-on-empty-events_requested" title="PR-117-Discussion-on-empty-events_requested" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><a href="https://github.com/openid/sharedsignals/pull/117" target="_blank" rel="noopener" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">PR 117 Discussion on empty </span><code style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:Menlo,Monaco,Consolas,"Courier New",monospace;font-size:inherit;padding:0.2em 0px;background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0.04);border-radius:3px;margin:0px;color:inherit">events_requested</code></a></h3><ul class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-left:2em"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Shayne) Should verification and “stream updated” events always be in streams?</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Shayne) It should be possible for Receivers to request empty streams, because they can add event types later</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Atul) I suggest we add language in the spec that says the verification and stream updated events are always present in the stream regardless of what the Receiver has requested</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Phil) We have both </span><code style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:Menlo,Monaco,Consolas,"Courier New",monospace;font-size:13.6px;padding:0.2em 0px;background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0.04);border-radius:3px;margin:0px;color:inherit">events_delivered</code><span style="box-sizing:border-box"> and </span><code style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:Menlo,Monaco,Consolas,"Courier New",monospace;font-size:13.6px;padding:0.2em 0px;background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0.04);border-radius:3px;margin:0px;color:inherit">events_requested</code><span style="box-sizing:border-box"> So what is the meaning of passing a empty value</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Atul) We should update the language in the PR to say something like: </span><code style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:Menlo,Monaco,Consolas,"Courier New",monospace;font-size:13.6px;padding:0.2em 0px;background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0.04);border-radius:3px;margin:0px;color:inherit">events_requested</code><span style="box-sizing:border-box"> SHOULD NOT be empty. If no changes are to be asserted in a stream update, this field MUST NOT be included.</span></li></ul><h3 class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" id="gmail-Resolution-on-sub_id-vs-subject-in-PR-82" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:inherit;line-height:1.25;color:inherit;margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;font-size:1.25em"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/CKKYvT1YSCqgm5iM23aRiQ?view#Resolution-on-sub_id-vs-subject-in-PR-82" title="Resolution-on-sub_id-vs-subject-in-PR-82" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><a href="https://github.com/openid/sharedsignals/pull/82" target="_blank" rel="noopener" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Resolution on sub_id vs subject in PR #82</span></a></h3><ul class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-left:2em"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Atul) Trying to resolve Apoorva’s comment that changing </span><code style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:Menlo,Monaco,Consolas,"Courier New",monospace;font-size:13.6px;padding:0.2em 0px;background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0.04);border-radius:3px;margin:0px;color:inherit">subject</code><span style="box-sizing:border-box"> in the verification event is a breaking change.</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Phil) Do we need to have a subject in a verification event?</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"></li></ul><h2 class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" id="gmail-Action-Items" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:inherit;line-height:1.25;color:inherit;margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-bottom:0.3em;border-bottom:1px solid rgb(238,238,238)"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/CKKYvT1YSCqgm5iM23aRiQ?view#Action-Items" title="Action-Items" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Action Items</span></h2><ul class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-left:2em"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:16px;letter-spacing:0.35px"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Atul to send out an email describing this issue (PR #82) better and soliciting comments on email, or discuss in next meeting.</span></li><br class="gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"></ul></div></span></div></div></div>