<div dir="ltr">Hi all,<br><div>Sorry to have abruptly dropped off the call. Here are the notes from today's call. They are also stored <a href="https://hackmd.io/@oidf-wg-sse/wg-meeting-20230815">here</a>.</div><div><br></div><div>Atul</div><div><br></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><span><div dir="ltr" style="margin-left:0pt" align="left"><table style="border:none;border-collapse:collapse"><colgroup><col width="142"><col width="482"></colgroup><tbody><tr style="height:0pt"><td style="vertical-align:middle;padding:-9.432pt -9.432pt -9.432pt -9.432pt;overflow:hidden"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><a href="https://sgnl.ai" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Work Sans",sans-serif;color:rgb(17,85,204);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="border:none;display:inline-block;overflow:hidden;width:137px;height:68px"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/aO7jB_JqOxA0tVDXsAotNQnsfEkxEORgtkVnVFrmkR7O8j3B4lbbRsGFuprzQhfDmri2YH8_dnjPiZnGMZxIcT9xRcdY6rYm-xGophLkgvl_v8istAefyh4qkSVINQtPfcmq5BZiKbfFHmursSUHyll1jEWBTd--nw26MIMKd86Br32rGZkvJwnEED_nzQ" width="137" height="68" style="margin-left:0px;margin-top:0px"></span></span></a></p></td><td style="vertical-align:top;padding:5pt 5pt 5pt 5pt;overflow:hidden"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.44;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Work Sans",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Atul Tulshibagwale</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.44;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Work Sans",sans-serif;color:rgb(102,102,102);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">CTO </span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><font size="1"><span style="font-family:"Work Sans",sans-serif;color:rgb(17,85,204);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="border:none;display:inline-block;overflow:hidden;width:20px;height:27px"><a href="https://linkedin.com/in/tulshi" target="_blank"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/ezm4lDcLtajK4RMqqHALoRgXyaC4HRlw0wWsR2Jvms0V9Wrxr3x5G66zsUrYpRXyeJ3RwLS3GdKUwO0Ui5mXPodSkUx8Xsarf_vj6WlJ05Y1qJoMFTlCZnEgtHvlJ7_7Dr7zWNjkvf3nMW9u1P5ye76SeHgz2QqGQ_rm-sjqYOS-vH1UZL7Yiewi4UO3Qw" width="20" height="27" style="margin-left:0px;margin-top:0px"></a> </span></span><span style="font-family:"Work Sans",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="border:none;display:inline-block;overflow:hidden;width:20px;height:27px"><a href="https://twitter.com/zirotrust" target="_blank"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/HAnAvykj318aQf5zTUZkjIJDtwelDecFi5d-idBrpUDBj7aKTdup5Mfia6UIbXTAP46zg7gigNnroQ9he3j81Sf9qCRRSS-w_nZ3oSXJnYLbPlCXgt6IqoifgHXETuJSRvFIZRIdn_aAbtp8ilKFyIVuTXjVe6cNAfXc5KZNwJeYinwfZZxVvHHaR5uIdQ" width="20" height="27" style="margin-left:0px;margin-top:0px"></a> </span></span><a href="mailto:atul@sgnl.ai" target="_blank"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/63PpVJLMybZyfD61JVu0TVH_KkP_IhneeBpDNvbd1KeSFJn6KZzWCgp4hFbrTrIxfksYyM-_wOjNKbjEhSQ2khRXVI3XKcwABLNLI_bFjkN0_NgVoijs_nIRcVJKeQm0s0MRdtkUkCOp5Omyv1faqcNiQxGEUyAvmE9HkeeQCeHa-LxleK0oHSAyQrDY6g" width="21" height="21" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial;white-space:pre-wrap;margin-left:0px;margin-top:0px"></a></font></p></td></tr></tbody></table><br></div><div dir="ltr" style="margin-left:0pt" align="left"><h1 class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" id="gmail-WG-Meeting-2023-08-15" title="" aria-describedby="popover77425" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 16px;font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";line-height:1.25;color:rgb(51,51,51);padding-bottom:0.3em;border-bottom:1px solid rgb(238,238,238);letter-spacing:0.35px"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">WG Meeting: 2023-08-15</span><div class="gmail-popover gmail-selection-popover gmail-top gmail-in" id="gmail-popover77425" style="box-sizing:border-box;max-width:276px;padding:1px;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-weight:400;line-height:1.42857;letter-spacing:normal;word-break:normal;word-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(119,119,119);background-clip:padding-box;border:1px solid rgba(0,0,0,0.2);border-radius:6px;line-break:auto;color:rgb(255,255,255)"><div class="gmail-arrow" style="box-sizing:border-box;width:0px;height:0px;border-color:transparent;border-style:solid;border-width:11px 11px 0px"></div><div class="gmail-popover-inner" style="box-sizing:border-box"><div class="gmail-popover-content" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:9px 14px"><span class="gmail-fa gmail-fa-commenting" style="box-sizing:border-box;display:inline-block;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;line-height:1;font-family:FontAwesome;font-size:inherit"></span> Comment</div></div></div></h1><h2 class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" id="gmail-Agenda" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";line-height:1.25;color:rgb(51,51,51);margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-bottom:0.3em;border-bottom:1px solid rgb(238,238,238);letter-spacing:0.35px"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/kxR5KXuvTQKHqFaLFzbmwA#Agenda" title="Agenda" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Agenda</span></h2><ul class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-left:2em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:16px;letter-spacing:0.35px"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Versioning proposal</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Remove authorization scopes / URLs from SSF metadata</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Comments in </span><a href="https://github.com/openid/sharedsignals/pull/82/files" target="_blank" rel="noopener" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">“Sub_id” PR</span></a></li></ul><h2 class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" id="gmail-Attendees" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";line-height:1.25;color:rgb(51,51,51);margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-bottom:0.3em;border-bottom:1px solid rgb(238,238,238);letter-spacing:0.35px"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/kxR5KXuvTQKHqFaLFzbmwA#Attendees" title="Attendees" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Attendees</span></h2><ul class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-left:2em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:16px;letter-spacing:0.35px"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Atul Tulshibagwale (SGNL)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Asad Ali (Thales)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Steve Venema (ForgeRock)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Apoorva Deshpande (Okta)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Tim Cappalli (Microsoft)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Peter Travers (Beyond Identity)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Mike Kiser (SailPoint)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Phil Hunt (Independent ID)</span></li></ul><h2 class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" id="gmail-Notes" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";line-height:1.25;color:rgb(51,51,51);margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-bottom:0.3em;border-bottom:1px solid rgb(238,238,238);letter-spacing:0.35px"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/kxR5KXuvTQKHqFaLFzbmwA#Notes" title="Notes" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Notes</span></h2><h3 class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" id="gmail-Versioning-Proposal" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";line-height:1.25;color:rgb(51,51,51);margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;font-size:1.25em;letter-spacing:0.35px"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/kxR5KXuvTQKHqFaLFzbmwA#Versioning-Proposal" title="Versioning-Proposal" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Versioning Proposal</span></h3><ul class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-left:2em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:16px;letter-spacing:0.35px"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">How do we document what has changed between versions?</span><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;padding-left:2em"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">We can tag releases on GitHub with the changes</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">The tag should say which release version of the document it refers to.</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Typically handled in non-spec output (e.g. blog posts)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Ideally every change has an associated GitHub issue, and we can just capture the list of issues that have been addressed.</span></li></ul></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Breaking vs. Non-breaking changes</span><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;padding-left:2em"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">We could have normative text that specifies implementers should ignore any unknown additional claims</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">How do we ascertain compliance?</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Breaking should imply that an existing deployment would no longer work with a newer version</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Proposed wording: “Must ignore claims or attributes that are not understood”</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Is there some reference language we can borrow?</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">There’s an old BCP? In the IETF</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">The JWT spec has text in it.</span></li></ul></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">We had discussions about document version / protocol version correlation</span><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;padding-left:2em"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">We should not do this.</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">A variation of the question is: As we’re iterating on a version, what do we do in the interim</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">All versions in the interim (before an approved version is released) reference a same version number</span></li></ul></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">We might want to title the doc “protocol versioning”</span><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;padding-left:2em"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">What does it mean to change a dictionary (e.g. the set of events described in the CAEP spec)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Any change to a dictionary is a protocol / schema revision</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">How would a Receiver know which dictionary version is supported by the Transmitter?</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Phil: just do version by dictionary, but include in each URN</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Tim: agreed, then doc can match event versions</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Tim: matches current OIDF process of being in a spec</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Also need a versioning guide (or section) specifically for event dictionaries as they differ from protocol versions</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Steve: could also have the same event listed with different versions in metadata if Tx supports two versions of the dictionary</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Steve: What if only 1 event changes in a dictionary update?</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Phil: change them all for conveinance</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Need use cases for version changes of events vs dictionary</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Tim: one question is whether rev-ing a version of an event when it didn’t change is as a bad thing</span></li></ul></li></ul><h2 class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" id="gmail-Action-Items" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";line-height:1.25;color:rgb(51,51,51);margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-bottom:0.3em;border-bottom:1px solid rgb(238,238,238);letter-spacing:0.35px"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/kxR5KXuvTQKHqFaLFzbmwA#Action-Items" title="Action-Items" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Action Items</span></h2><ul class="gmail-contains-task-list gmail-part gmail-in-view" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-left:2em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:16px;letter-spacing:0.35px"><li class="gmail-task-list-item enabled" style="box-sizing:border-box;list-style-type:none"><input class="gmail-task-list-item-checkbox" type="checkbox" style="margin-top:4px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:inherit;font-family:inherit;font-kerning:inherit;font-feature-settings:inherit;float:left;vertical-align:middle;padding:0px"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Atul to incorporate text from the JWT spec for specifying what is backward compatibility. Get consensus and add it to the spec.</span></li><li class="gmail-task-list-item enabled" style="box-sizing:border-box;list-style-type:none;padding-top:0.25em;margin-top:3px"><input class="gmail-task-list-item-checkbox" type="checkbox" style="margin-top:4px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:inherit;font-family:inherit;font-kerning:inherit;font-feature-settings:inherit;float:left;vertical-align:middle;padding:0px"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Steve to write up use cases for event version changes</span></li><li class="gmail-task-list-item enabled" style="box-sizing:border-box;list-style-type:none;padding-top:0.25em;margin-top:3px"><input class="gmail-task-list-item-checkbox" type="checkbox" style="margin-top:4px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:inherit;font-family:inherit;font-kerning:inherit;font-feature-settings:inherit;float:left;vertical-align:middle;padding:0px"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">All: review issue #95 before next call per Apoorva’s request</span></li></ul></div></span></div></div></div>