<div dir="ltr">Hi all,<br><div>Here are the notes from yesterday's call. They are also stored <a href="https://hackmd.io/@oidf-wg-sse/wg-meeting-20230808">here</a>:</div><div><br></div><div>Atul</div><div><br></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><span><div dir="ltr" style="margin-left:0pt" align="left"><table style="border:none;border-collapse:collapse"><colgroup><col width="142"><col width="482"></colgroup><tbody><tr style="height:0pt"><td style="vertical-align:middle;padding:-9.432pt -9.432pt -9.432pt -9.432pt;overflow:hidden"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><a href="https://sgnl.ai" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Work Sans",sans-serif;color:rgb(17,85,204);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="border:none;display:inline-block;overflow:hidden;width:137px;height:68px"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/aO7jB_JqOxA0tVDXsAotNQnsfEkxEORgtkVnVFrmkR7O8j3B4lbbRsGFuprzQhfDmri2YH8_dnjPiZnGMZxIcT9xRcdY6rYm-xGophLkgvl_v8istAefyh4qkSVINQtPfcmq5BZiKbfFHmursSUHyll1jEWBTd--nw26MIMKd86Br32rGZkvJwnEED_nzQ" width="137" height="68" style="margin-left:0px;margin-top:0px"></span></span></a></p></td><td style="vertical-align:top;padding:5pt 5pt 5pt 5pt;overflow:hidden"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.44;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Work Sans",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Atul Tulshibagwale</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.44;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Work Sans",sans-serif;color:rgb(102,102,102);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">CTO </span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><font size="1"><span style="font-family:"Work Sans",sans-serif;color:rgb(17,85,204);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="border:none;display:inline-block;overflow:hidden;width:20px;height:27px"><a href="https://linkedin.com/in/tulshi" target="_blank"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/ezm4lDcLtajK4RMqqHALoRgXyaC4HRlw0wWsR2Jvms0V9Wrxr3x5G66zsUrYpRXyeJ3RwLS3GdKUwO0Ui5mXPodSkUx8Xsarf_vj6WlJ05Y1qJoMFTlCZnEgtHvlJ7_7Dr7zWNjkvf3nMW9u1P5ye76SeHgz2QqGQ_rm-sjqYOS-vH1UZL7Yiewi4UO3Qw" width="20" height="27" style="margin-left:0px;margin-top:0px"></a> </span></span><span style="font-family:"Work Sans",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="border:none;display:inline-block;overflow:hidden;width:20px;height:27px"><a href="https://twitter.com/zirotrust" target="_blank"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/HAnAvykj318aQf5zTUZkjIJDtwelDecFi5d-idBrpUDBj7aKTdup5Mfia6UIbXTAP46zg7gigNnroQ9he3j81Sf9qCRRSS-w_nZ3oSXJnYLbPlCXgt6IqoifgHXETuJSRvFIZRIdn_aAbtp8ilKFyIVuTXjVe6cNAfXc5KZNwJeYinwfZZxVvHHaR5uIdQ" width="20" height="27" style="margin-left:0px;margin-top:0px"></a> </span></span><a href="mailto:atul@sgnl.ai" target="_blank"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/63PpVJLMybZyfD61JVu0TVH_KkP_IhneeBpDNvbd1KeSFJn6KZzWCgp4hFbrTrIxfksYyM-_wOjNKbjEhSQ2khRXVI3XKcwABLNLI_bFjkN0_NgVoijs_nIRcVJKeQm0s0MRdtkUkCOp5Omyv1faqcNiQxGEUyAvmE9HkeeQCeHa-LxleK0oHSAyQrDY6g" width="21" height="21" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial;white-space:pre-wrap;margin-left:0px;margin-top:0px"></a></font></p></td></tr></tbody></table><br></div><div dir="ltr" style="margin-left:0pt" align="left"><h1 class="gmail-part" id="gmail-WG-Meeting-2023-08-081" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:24px 0px 16px;font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";line-height:1.25;color:rgb(51,51,51);padding-bottom:0.3em;border-bottom:1px solid rgb(238,238,238);letter-spacing:0.35px"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">WG Meeting: 2023-08-08</span></h1><h2 class="gmail-part" id="gmail-Agenda" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";line-height:1.25;color:rgb(51,51,51);margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-bottom:0.3em;border-bottom:1px solid rgb(238,238,238);letter-spacing:0.35px"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/XRdbRSNhQzm2jNE37I0VvQ#Agenda" title="Agenda" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Agenda</span></h2><ul class="gmail-part" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-left:2em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:16px;letter-spacing:0.35px"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(atul) Backwards compatibility</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(smiel) Why do we have a </span><code style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:Menlo,Monaco,Consolas,"Courier New",monospace;font-size:13.6px;padding:0.2em 0px;background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0.04);border-radius:3px;margin:0px;color:inherit">format</code><span style="box-sizing:border-box"> field in the Stream Configuration? </span><a href="https://github.com/openid/sharedsignals/pull/87#discussion_r1276951345" target="_blank" rel="noopener" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">PR 87 discussion</span></a></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Apoorva) Metadata key changes </span><a href="https://github.com/openid/sharedsignals/pull/96" target="_blank" rel="noopener" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">PR 96</span></a></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Apoorva) CAEP usecases </span><a href="https://github.com/openid/sharedsignals/pull/92" target="_blank" rel="noopener" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">PR 92</span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box"> (2/7 meeting notes refer to </span><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tmMqiXNB-lW9HXIzrivOvaFSts23zAzKLWPcSD740kE/edit#heading=h.fsduc31pruxn" target="_blank" rel="noopener" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">this doc</span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box"> any update on this?)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Apoorva) is receiver allowed to set empty events requested in a PUT? Should this be 400?</span></li></ul><h2 class="gmail-part" id="gmail-Attendees" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";line-height:1.25;color:rgb(51,51,51);margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-bottom:0.3em;border-bottom:1px solid rgb(238,238,238);letter-spacing:0.35px"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/XRdbRSNhQzm2jNE37I0VvQ#Attendees" title="Attendees" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Attendees</span></h2><ul class="gmail-part" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-left:2em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:16px;letter-spacing:0.35px"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Atul Tulshibagwale (SGNL)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Steve Venema (ForgeRock)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Phil Hunt (Independent ID)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Eric Karlinsky (Okta)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Tim Cappalli (Microsoft)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Yair Sarig (VMWare)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Apoorva Deshpande (Okta)</span></li></ul><h2 class="gmail-part" id="gmail-Notes" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";line-height:1.25;color:rgb(51,51,51);margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-bottom:0.3em;border-bottom:1px solid rgb(238,238,238);letter-spacing:0.35px"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/XRdbRSNhQzm2jNE37I0VvQ#Notes" title="Notes" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Notes</span></h2><h3 class="gmail-part" id="gmail-Backwards-Compatibility" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";line-height:1.25;color:rgb(51,51,51);margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;font-size:1.25em;letter-spacing:0.35px"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/XRdbRSNhQzm2jNE37I0VvQ#Backwards-Compatibility" title="Backwards-Compatibility" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Backwards Compatibility</span></h3><ul class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-left:2em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:16px;letter-spacing:0.35px"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Tim) Are the 100s of thousands of Google partners just those that use the Firebase SDK</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Tim) So Google could just update the SDK</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Phil) Revving an SDK is not hard, so Google could do that</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Yair) Many will take a long time to make the change</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Atul) We can add a “version” or some such field in the Transmitter Configuration Metadata. Presence of this field will indicate that it is the new version of the spec, if the field is absent then it is the current RISC spec.</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Apoorva) Can we enumerate the breaking changes</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Tim) We should not codify the version numbers in implementer’s drafts</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Phil) We could do major / minor versions. Right now we are at “0.x”</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Phil) We could make the major version change change the numeral before the dot</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Tim) Three questions:</span><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;padding-left:2em"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">What does the version represent?</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">When do we rev the version?</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">What’s the field called?</span></li></ul></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Phil) Most companies don’t like to say they are implementing a standard</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Steve) We’re talking about interop between companies</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Phil) “I support” versus “I guarantee” (a lot don’t although they should)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Phil) It’s the certification, not the language</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Atul) Can we say that if the “version” field is not present, then it is a specific older version of the draft</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Tim) We can say that anything that doesn’t have the version field, then we could say generically it is a pre-standard implementation</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Yair) You do not want local progression so that each implementation has some different version that was published in the past</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Steve) What is a backward compatible change and what isn’t?</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Phil) Backward incompatible changes should rev the spec version, others should not</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Phil) Schema number should be distinct from the approval process - so that when a draft that is currently implemented doesn’t get a new number without anything changing in the spec</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Phil) There are three numbers that matter: Formal document version number. There’s the protocol version number, and there’s the schema changes.</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Steve) Doesn’t the protocol change mean that the schema has changed?</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Phil) Only change the number if it matters to an implementer</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Atul) Proposal: We add a field in the metadata and assign a verison number “1” to it, even though the current draft is not ratified by the OpenID foundation as a standard. If we need to make a backward compatible change that is published as an implementer’s draft, then we update the number to the right of the decimal (i.e. 1.1, 1.2, etc.) This way, when a spec goes from an implementer’s draft to a final draft, we do not have to change the version number.</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(?) How do we revision events in CAEP / RISC?</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Steve) Someone should write a concrete proposal</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Tim) There’s core-framework versions and there’s event versions</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Tim) Phil - on the event Identifier, would it be better to use URNs instead of URIs, since they have version numbering in them</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Phil) When we register with the IETF (IANA?) they’re always URNs.</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Phil) We could establish a new IANA registry in this working group with an apporpriate naming convention and process</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">(Phil) Anyone can register their own namespace.</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"></li></ul><h2 class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" id="gmail-Action-Items" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Seg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