<div dir="ltr">Hi all,<br><div>Here are the notes from today's call. They are also stored <a href="https://hackmd.io/@oidf-wg-sse/wg-meeting-20230207">here</a>:</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Atul</div><div><br></div><div>--<br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr" align="left" style="margin-left:0pt"><table style="border:none;border-collapse:collapse"><colgroup><col width="142"><col width="482"></colgroup><tbody><tr style="height:0pt"><td style="vertical-align:middle;overflow:hidden"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><a href="https://sgnl.ai/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Work Sans",sans-serif;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="border:none;display:inline-block;overflow:hidden;width:137px;height:68px"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/aO7jB_JqOxA0tVDXsAotNQnsfEkxEORgtkVnVFrmkR7O8j3B4lbbRsGFuprzQhfDmri2YH8_dnjPiZnGMZxIcT9xRcdY6rYm-xGophLkgvl_v8istAefyh4qkSVINQtPfcmq5BZiKbfFHmursSUHyll1jEWBTd--nw26MIMKd86Br32rGZkvJwnEED_nzQ" width="137" height="68" style="margin-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"></span></span></a></p></td><td style="vertical-align:top;padding:5pt;overflow:hidden"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.44;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Work Sans",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Atul Tulshibagwale</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.44;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Work Sans",sans-serif;color:rgb(102,102,102);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">CTO </span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.2;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><font size="1"><span style="font-family:"Work Sans",sans-serif;color:rgb(17,85,204);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="border:none;display:inline-block;overflow:hidden;width:20px;height:27px"><a href="https://linkedin.com/in/tulshi" target="_blank"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/ezm4lDcLtajK4RMqqHALoRgXyaC4HRlw0wWsR2Jvms0V9Wrxr3x5G66zsUrYpRXyeJ3RwLS3GdKUwO0Ui5mXPodSkUx8Xsarf_vj6WlJ05Y1qJoMFTlCZnEgtHvlJ7_7Dr7zWNjkvf3nMW9u1P5ye76SeHgz2QqGQ_rm-sjqYOS-vH1UZL7Yiewi4UO3Qw" width="20" height="27" style="margin-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"></a> </span></span><span style="font-family:"Work Sans",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="border:none;display:inline-block;overflow:hidden;width:20px;height:27px"><a href="https://twitter.com/zirotrust" target="_blank"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/HAnAvykj318aQf5zTUZkjIJDtwelDecFi5d-idBrpUDBj7aKTdup5Mfia6UIbXTAP46zg7gigNnroQ9he3j81Sf9qCRRSS-w_nZ3oSXJnYLbPlCXgt6IqoifgHXETuJSRvFIZRIdn_aAbtp8ilKFyIVuTXjVe6cNAfXc5KZNwJeYinwfZZxVvHHaR5uIdQ" width="20" height="27" style="margin-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"></a> </span></span><a href="mailto:atul@sgnl.ai" target="_blank"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/63PpVJLMybZyfD61JVu0TVH_KkP_IhneeBpDNvbd1KeSFJn6KZzWCgp4hFbrTrIxfksYyM-_wOjNKbjEhSQ2khRXVI3XKcwABLNLI_bFjkN0_NgVoijs_nIRcVJKeQm0s0MRdtkUkCOp5Omyv1faqcNiQxGEUyAvmE9HkeeQCeHa-LxleK0oHSAyQrDY6g" width="21" height="21" style="background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; white-space: pre-wrap; margin-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"></a></font></p></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></div></div><div><br></div><br clear="all"><div><h1 class="gmail-part" id="gmail-WG-Meeting-2023-02-07" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 16px;font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";line-height:1.25;color:rgb(51,51,51);padding-bottom:0.3em;border-bottom:1px solid rgb(238,238,238);letter-spacing:0.35px"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">WG Meeting: 2023-02-07</span></h1><h2 class="gmail-part" id="gmail-Agenda" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";line-height:1.25;color:rgb(51,51,51);margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-bottom:0.3em;border-bottom:1px solid rgb(238,238,238);letter-spacing:0.35px"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/e7_DlOVlQ9yNB_0-7ecwZA?view#Agenda" title="Agenda" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Agenda</span></h2><ul class="gmail-part" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-left:2em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:16px;letter-spacing:0.35px"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">[Atul] PR Update</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Any New Inputs</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">[Eric] Stream Configuration Question</span></li></ul><h2 class="gmail-part" id="gmail-Attendees" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";line-height:1.25;color:rgb(51,51,51);margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-bottom:0.3em;border-bottom:1px solid rgb(238,238,238);letter-spacing:0.35px"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/e7_DlOVlQ9yNB_0-7ecwZA?view#Attendees" title="Attendees" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Attendees</span></h2><ul class="gmail-part" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-left:2em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:16px;letter-spacing:0.35px"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Atul Tulshibagwale (SGNL)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Greg Brown (Axiad)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Vinayak Shenoy (Okta)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Shayne Miel (Cisco)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Eric Karlinsky (Okta)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Debora Comparin (Thales)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Stan Bounev (VeriClouds)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Edmund Jay ()</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Hemil (Yahoo)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Frank Taylor (VMware)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Mike Kiser (SailPoint)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Steve Venema (ForgeRock)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Gail Hodges (OIDF)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Matt Topper ()</span></li></ul><h2 class="gmail-part" id="gmail-Notes" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";line-height:1.25;color:rgb(51,51,51);margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-bottom:0.3em;border-bottom:1px solid rgb(238,238,238);letter-spacing:0.35px"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/e7_DlOVlQ9yNB_0-7ecwZA?view#Notes" title="Notes" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Notes</span></h2><h3 class="gmail-part" id="gmail-PR-Update" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";line-height:1.25;color:rgb(51,51,51);margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;font-size:1.25em;letter-spacing:0.35px"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/e7_DlOVlQ9yNB_0-7ecwZA?view#PR-Update" title="PR-Update" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">PR Update</span></h3><ul class="gmail-part" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-left:2em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:16px;letter-spacing:0.35px"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">One more pull request in the works</span></li></ul><h3 class="gmail-part" id="gmail-Use-Cases" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";line-height:1.25;color:rgb(51,51,51);margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;font-size:1.25em;letter-spacing:0.35px"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/e7_DlOVlQ9yNB_0-7ecwZA?view#Use-Cases" title="Use-Cases" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Use Cases</span></h3><ul class="gmail-part" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-left:2em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:16px;letter-spacing:0.35px"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Frank would like to get involved in the use-cases discussion</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">How customers connect this technology to the various products they are buying. How does VMWare play in that space, and how do customers integrate</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">We do not have a clear view into how various products use various events.</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">We should start with the older use-case document and make it current to reflect the current interest from the WG</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">We should aim for interoperability testing between products</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">There are some private efforts of interoperability testing</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">It will help for implementers to showcase this technology</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Two levels of interop: technical interop and value demonstration</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">An “Architecture Document” could be really useful</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">There is a Catch-22 with this standard right now: There is hesitation because the use-cases are not clear, and because use-cases are not clear there is hesitation</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">What is the consensus around how each of these CAEP events would work. There are just 5, so it should be doable.</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Eric Karlinsky can take the lead, Steve Venema, Stan Bounev, Frank Taylor, Vinayak Shenoy and Atul Tulshibagwale can help.</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Is anyone aware of OIX? They have a Guide to Shared Signals (Aug 2022)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">NIST has an interest in using RISC events</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Current doc that could serve as background is </span><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tmMqiXNB-lW9HXIzrivOvaFSts23zAzKLWPcSD740kE/edit#heading=h.fsduc31pruxn" target="_blank" rel="noopener" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">here</span></a></li></ul><h3 class="gmail-part" id="gmail-Slack-Channel-Update" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";line-height:1.25;color:rgb(51,51,51);margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;font-size:1.25em;letter-spacing:0.35px"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/e7_DlOVlQ9yNB_0-7ecwZA?view#Slack-Channel-Update" title="Slack-Channel-Update" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Slack Channel Update</span></h3><ul class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-left:2em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:16px;letter-spacing:0.35px"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">OIDF cannot affort the cost of the Slack channel</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Free version deletes messages after 90 days</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">So we can have informal discussions on Slack, but any formal communication needs to be through the Listserv</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Some entities are not allowed to use Slack</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">OIDF is looking for an alternative to Slack</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Reach out to Mike Leszcz </span><a href="mailto:mike.leszcz@oidf.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">mike.leszcz@oidf.org</span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box"> to get yourself added.</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"></li></ul><h3 class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" id="gmail-Stream-Configuration-Question" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";line-height:1.25;color:rgb(51,51,51);margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;font-size:1.25em;letter-spacing:0.35px"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/e7_DlOVlQ9yNB_0-7ecwZA?view#Stream-Configuration-Question" title="Stream-Configuration-Question" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Stream Configuration Question</span></h3><ul class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-left:2em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:16px;letter-spacing:0.35px"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">When there are multiple subject entities in a complex subject,</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">There needs to be more precise specification of a list of users in a subject definition.</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">[Shayne] If you want to specify multiple subjects, the spec allows for it. Q: How? Add Subject only taks one subject</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Okta would like to know the specific list of IDs for whom the events need to be sent, which cannot be achieved by specifying it as a general “tenant”</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">This comes down to the use-case: Who is the Transmitter, what is your relationship. One may have different Transmitters for device management and user identities, and the streams with those Transmitters would cover all members of the respective tenants</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">This might work for simpler organizations, but for complex organizations, this abstraction may fail</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Is the ask that there should be multiple subjects in the same “add subject” event? A: It could be a group of users within a tenant.</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">There is a “group” subject type. But the Tx and Rx would need to agree on the group membership.</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Wouldn’t this even be true of user identities? Tx and Rx need to know that they’re talking about the same user when they pass a shared identifier.</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Yes, there needs to be agreement, but there needs to be an extra level of coordination between Tx and Rx in the group case</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">In agreeing to the group membership, Tx and Rx may share user Ids, so that exchange could be used instead of the group.</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Could SCIM be used for group membership agreement</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">One more approach: Use the Receiver to make “add event” calls to specific members instead of the whole group</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">There’s a job to be done between the Rx and Tx about group membership agreement. That can be done by just adding individual members to the stream, or it can be done out-of-band, and then referred to in the protocol</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">If instead, there was an “add subject” method that allowed multiple subjects to be added together, it could be easier.</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Pre-agreed groupings are a higher complexity than user-identity (it would seem)</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">There is a transactionality to it: An add-event with multiple members is an all-or-nothing semantic, whereas multiple add-events could result in some being added and some failing to be added</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">“Cold start problem” - SCIM could be useful, but is there a way to avoid that dependency</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Perhaps we can tackle this as a part of the use-cases work</span></li></ul><h3 class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" id="gmail-IIW-WG-Meeting" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";line-height:1.25;color:rgb(51,51,51);margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;font-size:1.25em;letter-spacing:0.35px"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/e7_DlOVlQ9yNB_0-7ecwZA?view#IIW-WG-Meeting" title="IIW-WG-Meeting" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">IIW WG Meeting</span></h3><ul class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-left:2em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:16px;letter-spacing:0.35px"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Atul to send out a form to solicit interest in the in-person meeting on the Monday before IIW Spring 2023</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">We should arrive at an agenda for this meeting</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">The OIDF workshop covers all workgroups’ activities, but this WG meeting would be separate and we would talk about specific agenda items that are interesting specifically to the WG members</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">This can be an agenda item for the next meeting</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Hybrid is also a possibility</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Confirm if it’s in SF or Mt View</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"></li></ul><h2 class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" id="gmail-Action-Items" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";line-height:1.25;color:rgb(51,51,51);margin-top:24px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-bottom:0.3em;border-bottom:1px solid rgb(238,238,238);letter-spacing:0.35px"><a class="gmail-anchor gmail-hidden-xs" href="https://hackmd.io/e7_DlOVlQ9yNB_0-7ecwZA?view#Action-Items" title="Action-Items" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration-line:none;float:left;padding-right:4px;line-height:1"><span class="gmail-octicon gmail-octicon-link" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:16px;line-height:1;font-family:octicons;display:inline-block;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:middle"></span></a><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Action Items</span></h2><ul class="gmail-part gmail-in-view" style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;padding-left:2em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:-apple-system,"system-ui","Segoe UI","Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Roboto,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:16px;letter-spacing:0.35px"><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Atul to reach out to Asad (Thales) to get the use-cases document</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Gail and Steve to discuss OIX approach</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Eric and Atul to talk about previous work</span></li><li class="gmail-" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-top:0.25em"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">Atul to send out a form to gauge interest in an in-person meeting around IIW Spring 2023</span></li></ul></div><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><span><div dir="ltr" style="margin-left:0pt" align="left"></div></span></div></div></div>