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<p class="MsoNormal">FAPI and iGov are standards, not an organization. Is there a reason why an organization that is using FAPI or iGov cannot use bearer tokens?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">On 4/6/18, 9:59 AM, someone claiming to be "Phil Hunt" <<a href="mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">I cited FAPI and iGov as examples of cases that cannot use bearer tokens as defined by RFC6750.
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">I agree that one advantage of 6750 is it does not mandate JWT.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">This is why I stated mandated JWT would be a compromise. We discussed in the past that the compromise was that JWT’s could be manually generated in the absence of OAuth token servers.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black">Phil<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black">Oracle Corporation, Identity Cloud Services Architect<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black">@independentid<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black"><a href="http://www.independentid.com">www.independentid.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">On Apr 6, 2018, at 9:51 AM, Hardt, Dick <<a href="mailto:dick@amazon.com">dick@amazon.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">An OAuth Bearer token != a JWT. Dictating JWT would force deployments that have their own proprietary tokens to adopt JWT, for zero benefit as the the token issuer and token receiver are the same entity, so there
is no requirement for interop.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">While there are numerous ways to authenticate, picking one widely deployed mechanism simplifies adoption.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">It is unclear why a bearer token for RISC would be in conflict with someone that has used FAPI or iGov. Just because they use a POP for authentication of the user, does not mean they can’t use a bearer token for
the RISC control plane.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Do you have an example of someone that wants to deploy RISC where 6750 would be problematic?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">/Dick<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">On 4/6/18, 9:22 AM, someone claiming to be "Openid-specs-risc on behalf of Phil Hunt via Openid-specs-risc" <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-risc-bounces@lists.openid.net"><span style="color:purple">openid-specs-risc-bounces@lists.openid.net</span></a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>on
behalf of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:openid-specs-risc@lists.openid.net"><span style="color:purple">openid-specs-risc@lists.openid.net</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><a name="_MailOriginalBody">The dependence on RFC6750 (OAuth bearer tokens) is a concern because it limits security agility.<o:p></o:p></a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">I have stated, my preference is for any HTTP security mechanism to be permissible because implicit federation entities are not always using OAuth based infrastructure
- yet many do have sophisticated IDM and security systems. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">That concern aside, there are other OIDF working groups (FAPI and iGov) that are mandating the use of bound or proof-of-possesion tokens. These groups would be unable
to use RISC’s proposed bearer token security model as they only accept token binding and mutual tls bound tokens.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">As a compromise, I suggest the dependence be made on RFC7519 (JWT tokens) instead of RFC6750. It would be reasonable to suggest, in a non-normative way the use of OAuth
Bearer tokens as an example solution for RISC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">Phil<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">Oracle Corporation, Identity Cloud Services Architect<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">@independentid<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.independentid.com&d=DwMGaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=na5FVzBTWmanqWNy4DpctyXPpuYqPkAI1aLcLN4KZNA&m=tMyrA88xBOR5PoGwZna-QzVmvSJosoix0WzQ3HLSEEc&s=eTcI2trRAeFmRS_r61nkuVD4J8aSzzOaiUYETFMHft8&e="><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span style="color:purple">www.independentid.com</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span><a href="mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span style="color:purple">phil.hunt@oracle.com</span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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