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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Um, no. My example clearly states that Amazon is going to tell Google to stop sending events. Note that both parties are transmitters and receivers. A good UX for the user is to only have
to tell one of them to stop sharing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">What are you trying to convey here? As I stated further down, when there is no explicit consent by the user, we still need an API.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">/Dick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">On 2/20/17, 8:32 PM, someone claiming to be "Phil Hunt (IDM)" <<a href="mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Right, so in each scenario you describe the consent is with the entity transmitting the event. The publisher. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">If the user changes their mind they tell an entity to stop sharing events--that makes the entity the transmitter not the receiver. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Therefore there is no need for an api that lets the receiver override the consent the publisher/transmitter has already collected. <br>
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Phil<o:p></o:p></p>
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On Feb 20, 2017, at 12:48 PM, Hardt, Dick <<a href="mailto:dick@amazon.com">dick@amazon.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">On 2/19/17, 5:28 PM, someone claiming to be "Phil Hunt (IDM)" <<a href="mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">We are not connecting. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">One more try...<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">So yes amazon could ask but i am asking why amazon would need to override the consent the user already granted with the transmitter (eg idp). <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Amazon could ask before sending to the IdP.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">You might ask as an rp if you can share events back to the idp. But again you are the issuer. So you issue events based on whether the user consented in your domain to share back to the idp. Again the idp doesn't
need to control your rp issues event stream--at least from a privacy perspective. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">After the fact, the user could decide she does not want Amazon and Google to share info. That decision could be at either Amazon or Google. If at Amazon, then the RP is calling the IdP to ask it to stop sending
signals. This is the only way that the IdP will know the user wanted to stop sharing. Seems like a bad UX for the user to have to go to both the RP and the IdP to stop sharing.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Your orignal question was why do we need a control API. Even if we don’t support the use cases above, it is needed when we are sharing signals based on an email. The IdP does not know the user is at the RP until
the RP tells it.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">/Dick<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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On Feb 19, 2017, at 4:36 PM, Hardt, Dick <<a href="mailto:dick@amazon.com">dick@amazon.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">The receiver could signal to the transmitter what the user wants. The transmitter could confirm and/or query what the user wants.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Yes, the transmitter decides if events are transmitted, but one would also expect the transmitter to respect the user’s preferences.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">/Dick</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in">On 2/19/17, 4:08 PM, someone claiming to be "Phil Hunt (IDM)" <<a href="mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in">Thanks. However, I think the subscribe proposal may be backwards. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in">Underlines for better clarity....<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in">If <u>transmitter (aka publisher) </u>expects to let its users (whether rp or idp) control whether
<u>transmitter</u> transmits their events, why would you let the receiver control your users info?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in">The per user subscription control requirement seems to be the prerogative of the transmitter (publisher) and not of the receiver. <br>
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Phil<o:p></o:p></p>
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On Feb 19, 2017, at 3:16 PM, Hardt, Dick <<a href="mailto:dick@amazon.com">dick@amazon.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">I expect to let users opt out of sharing. I can envision giving the user an option to decline security event sharing when federating.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">We will need a standard API to subscribe subjects when we are not federating. The
<a href="http://amazon.com">amazon.com</a> use case where we are sharing security events based on email address.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">/Dick</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in">On 2/18/17, 3:34 PM, someone claiming to be "Phil Hunt" <<a href="mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in">More importantly, I have not heard a case where users would be allowed to decline security event sharing and still consent to federation. <br>
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The consent we've talked about is part of legal terms in the explicit dialog or of service provider TOS when users supply a foreign recovery email. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in">If that is the case I am not sure we need to have a standard api for registration of subscriber subjects. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in"><br>
Phil<o:p></o:p></p>
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On Feb 18, 2017, at 12:04 PM, Hardt, Dick <<a href="mailto:dick@amazon.com">dick@amazon.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in">Good question<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.5in">When Adam was labeling the implicit and explicit RPs, I originally thought the implicit was the OAuth flow as there was an implicit subscription by the RP of RISC events.<br>
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-- Dick<o:p></o:p></p>
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On Feb 18, 2017, at 8:55 AM, Phil Hunt <<a href="mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">A few questions following Thursday’s F2F…<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">Is there ever a time in RISC where a user who has chosen to federate would not be added to the stream between providers? And if so, doesn’t the IDP already know this? Why wouldn’t an IDP who is a transmitter just
do this automatically? <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">Why wouldn’t an IDP just put a subject, who has consented to federation, in the event list for an audience automatically? <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">What purpose does it serve to have the receiver call back to register the subject if the receiver has already agreed to an event stream?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="color:black">Phil</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="color:black">Oracle Corporation, Identity Cloud Services & Identity Standards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="color:black">@independentid</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="color:black"><a href="http://www.independentid.com">www.independentid.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">_______________________________________________<br>
Openid-specs-risc mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Openid-specs-risc@lists.openid.net">Openid-specs-risc@lists.openid.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-risc">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-risc</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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