<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Adam,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">My comments were more that the “standards” approach to legal operational business information sharing agreement is a new thing and that this will take some time for many organizations to get their heads around.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">For Oracle, no decisions have been made on any preferred method or provided comments. The comments I shared were my “gut” reaction.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">RISC’s operational requirements is not a matter of technical protocol standards it is an operational service. Because of this, most, if not all, of us will at some point have to engage not only with legal, but also privacy and potentially regulatory offices. I caution that it is reasonable to expect that this will slow down the normal standards process.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">With that said, I understand the need for pilot agreements. <u class="">That is more specific and easily addressed. We should proceed with those as temporary information sharing agreements.</u></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><u class="">I have a strong objection to implying these “pilot” agreements are in any way going to reflect the final agreements we would “standardize” on as this may serve to “lock-out” future participants before any true consensus has been achieved. </u></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">From a OpenID Foundation perspective, these template agreements should probably go through the same community consensus building process as the technical documents.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">With that said, I get the need to apply pressure on our various organizations to move quickly.</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; line-height: normal; border-spacing: 0px;"><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">Phil</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">@independentid</div><div class=""><a href="http://www.independentid.com" class="">www.independentid.com</a></div></div></div></div></span><a href="mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 5, 2016, at 10:31 AM, Adam Dawes <<a href="mailto:adawes@google.com" class="">adawes@google.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span id="gmail-docs-internal-guid-a2a21625-d03f-c7b8-f181-353be7aba923" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Notes from Dec 5 meeting. Please update with any corrections or omissions.</span></div><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Attendees</span></div><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Adam Dawes, Marius Scurtescu, Dick Hardt, Phil Hunt, Adam Migus, John Bradley, George Fletcher</span></div><div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Agenda</span></div><ul style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: disc; font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Sharing agreement</span></div></li><ul style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: circle; font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Amazon thinks that they’ll be ready in mid January. Agreement generally looks okay but they are most concerned with the actual info that will be shared.</span></div></li><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: circle; font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">AoL gotten prelim ok from legal but need to get buy-in from CISO.</span></div></li><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: circle; font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Confyrm want to participate, need to talk to Andrew for details</span></div></li><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: circle; font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Oracle doesn’t quite know how to digest this from a legal process standpoint, coming up with a general template instead of an actual agreement. There may be more comfort to join an industry consortium, perhaps one hosted at OIX instead of a common bi-lateral agreement.</span></div></li><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: circle; font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Ping doesn’t have a great use case and not likely to participate.</span></div></li><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: circle; font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Conclusion: for Google data, Google will wait to get feedback from interested parties until the end of January. We’ll then work through once with the parties that have given feedback to get to the preferred agreement. Further asks for changes will be very difficult. [Dick] thinks that there won’t be that many direct agreements.</span></div></li></ul><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: disc; font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Another use case around account recovery, leveraging credit card details. RISC would be very helpful here. [</span><a href="https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/12/guessing_credit.html" style="text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Bruce Schneier article</span></a><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">]</span></div></li><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: disc; font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">IETF summary</span></div></li><ul style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: circle; font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Formal meeting not too eventful. Some feedback on the name. Follow up to incorporate Justin’s suggestion on payload. </span></div></li><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: circle; font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Dick and Yaron Shefer are chairs for the Security Events WG. </span><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=""><br class="gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">AI: Dick needs to nominate </span><a href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hunt-idevent-token-07" style="text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">current draft</span></a><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=""> for the WG to adopt.</span></div></li><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: circle; font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Transport</span></div></li><ul style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: square; font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Subscription management. Sorting out control plane from transmission into possibly two documents. Phil sorting out different requirements from different use cases (RISC, SCIM, OIDC). The transport seems quite different with RISC so need to factor out what should go into general spec and what into the RISC profile. </span></div></li><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: square; font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Phil will split the transport into control plane and messaging. We’ll take some time to figure out control plane but let’s not slow down data sharing for it.</span></div></li></ul><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: circle; font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">SETs</span></div></li><ul style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: square; font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Google is working on events for: All sessions terminated, All tokens revoked, Account Locked and Account Restored. Google will propose some common definitions based on the properties of their system and we can work towards more general definitions based on other companies’ systems.</span></div></li></ul></ul><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: disc; font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Google Pubsub and Event Pipeline</span></div></li><ul style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: circle; font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Will be ready to go with manually configured data plane whenever we can get another party to work with. </span><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=""><br class="gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">AI: Adam to reach out to MSFT to get things coordinated. When the agreeement is baked, we’ll have more that we can work with.</span></div></li></ul><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: disc; font-size: 14.6667px; font-family: arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">For future discussion: Domain based relationships (Microsoft enterprise - Google enterprise)</span></li></ul></span></div><div class="gmail_extra" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 11:53 PM, Adam Dawes<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:adawes@google.com" target="_blank" class="">adawes@google.com</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr" class="">Hi all,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Wanted to follow up from conversations at IETF around token spec and transport. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">1. Please join my meeting.</div><div class=""><a href="https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/576653581" target="_blank" class="">https://global.gotomeeting.<wbr class="">com/join/576653581</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">2. Use your microphone and speakers (VoIP) - a headset is recommended. Or, call in using your telephone.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">United States:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="tel:(312)%20757-3119" value="+13127573119" target="_blank" class="">+1 (312) 757-3119</a></div><div class="">Australia:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="tel:+61%202%209091%207603" value="+61290917603" target="_blank" class="">+61 2 9091 7603</a></div><div class="">Austria: +43 (0) 7 2088 0716</div><div class="">Belgium: +32 (0) 28 08 4372</div><div class="">Canada:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="tel:(647)%20497-9380" value="+16474979380" target="_blank" class="">+1 (647) 497-9380</a></div><div class="">Denmark: +45 (0) 69 91 84 58</div><div class="">Finland: +358 (0) 931 58 1773</div><div class="">France: +33 (0) 170 950 590</div><div class="">Germany:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="tel:+49%2069%20257367300" value="+4969257367300" target="_blank" class="">+49 (0) 692 5736 7300</a></div><div class="">Ireland: +353 (0) 15 133 006</div><div class="">Italy: +39 0 699 26 68 65</div><div class="">Netherlands: +31 (0) 208 080 759</div><div class="">New Zealand:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="tel:+64%209-974%209579" value="+6499749579" target="_blank" class="">+64 9 974 9579</a></div><div class="">Norway:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="tel:+47%2021%2004%2030%2059" value="+4721043059" target="_blank" class="">+47 21 04 30 59</a></div><div class="">Spain:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="tel:+34%20931%2076%2015%2034" value="+34931761534" target="_blank" class="">+34 931 76 1534</a></div><div class="">Sweden: +46 (0) 852 500 691</div><div class="">Switzerland: +41 (0) 435 0026 89</div><div class="">United Kingdom:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="tel:+44%2020%203713%205011" value="+442037135011" target="_blank" class="">+44 (0) 20 3713 5011</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Access Code: 576-653-581</div><div class="">Audio PIN: Shown after joining the meeting</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Meeting ID: 576-653-581</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><div class="m_3265660556582484864gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.5em; padding-top: 10px; margin-top: 10px; color: rgb(85, 85, 85); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: small;" class=""><span style="border-width: 2px 0px 0px; border-style: solid; border-color: rgb(213, 15, 37); padding-top: 2px; margin-top: 2px;" class="">Adam Dawes |</span><span style="border-width: 2px 0px 0px; border-style: solid; border-color: rgb(51, 105, 232); padding-top: 2px; margin-top: 2px;" class=""> Sr. Product Manager |</span><span style="border-width: 2px 0px 0px; border-style: solid; border-color: rgb(0, 153, 57); padding-top: 2px; margin-top: 2px;" class=""> <a href="mailto:adawes@google.com" target="_blank" class="">adawes@google.com</a> |</span><span style="border-width: 2px 0px 0px; border-style: solid; border-color: rgb(238, 178, 17); padding-top: 2px; margin-top: 2px;" class=""> <a href="tel:(650)%20214-2410" value="+16502142410" target="_blank" class=""><wbr class="">+1 650-214-2410</a></span></div><br class=""></div></div></font></span></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.5em; padding-top: 10px; margin-top: 10px; color: rgb(85, 85, 85); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: small;" class=""><span style="border-width: 2px 0px 0px; border-style: solid; border-color: rgb(213, 15, 37); padding-top: 2px; margin-top: 2px;" class="">Adam Dawes |</span><span style="border-width: 2px 0px 0px; border-style: solid; border-color: rgb(51, 105, 232); padding-top: 2px; margin-top: 2px;" class=""> Sr. Product Manager |</span><span style="border-width: 2px 0px 0px; border-style: solid; border-color: rgb(0, 153, 57); padding-top: 2px; margin-top: 2px;" class=""> <a href="mailto:adawes@google.com" target="_blank" class="">adawes@google.com</a> |</span><span style="border-width: 2px 0px 0px; border-style: solid; border-color: rgb(238, 178, 17); padding-top: 2px; margin-top: 2px;" class=""> +1 650-214-2410</span></div><br class=""></div></div></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Openid-specs-risc mailing list</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="mailto:Openid-specs-risc@lists.openid.net" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Openid-specs-risc@lists.openid.net</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-risc" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-risc</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>