[Openid-specs-risc] subscription/enrolment - why do we need a receiver API for it?

[Hardt, Dick]

On 2/19/17, 5:28 PM, someone claiming to be "Phil Hunt (IDM)" <phil.hunt at oracle.com<mailto:phil.hunt at oracle.com>> wrote:

We are not connecting.

One more try...

So yes amazon could ask but i am asking why amazon would need to override the consent the user already granted with the transmitter (eg idp).

Amazon could ask before sending to the IdP.

You might ask as an rp if you can share events back to the idp. But again you are the issuer. So you issue events based on whether the user consented in your domain to share back to the idp. Again the idp doesn't need to control your rp issues event stream--at least from a privacy perspective.

After the fact, the user could decide she does not want Amazon and Google to share info. That decision could be at either Amazon or Google. If at Amazon, then the RP is calling the IdP to ask it to stop sending signals. This is the only way that the IdP will know the user wanted to stop sharing. Seems like a bad UX for the user to have to go to both the RP and the IdP to stop sharing.

Your orignal question was why do we need a control API. Even if we don’t support the use cases above, it is needed when we are sharing signals based on an email. The IdP does not know the user is at the RP until the RP tells it.

/Dick


On Feb 19, 2017, at 4:36 PM, Hardt, Dick <dick at amazon.com<mailto:dick at amazon.com>> wrote:
The receiver could signal to the transmitter what the user wants. The transmitter could confirm and/or query what the user wants.

Yes, the transmitter decides if events are transmitted, but one would also expect the transmitter to respect the user’s preferences.

/Dick

On 2/19/17, 4:08 PM, someone claiming to be "Phil Hunt (IDM)" <phil.hunt at oracle.com<mailto:phil.hunt at oracle.com>> wrote:

Thanks. However, I think the subscribe proposal may be backwards.

Underlines for better clarity....

If transmitter (aka publisher) expects to let its users (whether rp or idp) control whether transmitter transmits their events, why would you let the receiver control your users info?

The per user subscription control requirement seems to be the prerogative of the transmitter (publisher) and not of the receiver.

Phil

On Feb 19, 2017, at 3:16 PM, Hardt, Dick <dick at amazon.com<mailto:dick at amazon.com>> wrote:
I expect to let users opt out of sharing. I can envision giving the user an option to decline security event sharing when federating.

We will need a standard API to subscribe subjects when we are not federating. The amazon.com<http://amazon.com> use case where we are sharing security events based on email address.

/Dick

On 2/18/17, 3:34 PM, someone claiming to be "Phil Hunt" <phil.hunt at oracle.com<mailto:phil.hunt at oracle.com>> wrote:

More importantly, I have not heard a case where users would be allowed to decline security event sharing and still consent to federation.

The consent we've talked about is part of legal terms in the explicit dialog or of service provider TOS when users supply a foreign recovery email.

If that is the case I am not sure we need to have a standard api for registration of subscriber subjects.

Phil

On Feb 18, 2017, at 12:04 PM, Hardt, Dick <dick at amazon.com<mailto:dick at amazon.com>> wrote:
Good question

When Adam was labeling the implicit and explicit RPs, I originally thought the implicit was the OAuth flow as there was an implicit subscription by the RP of RISC events.

-- Dick

On Feb 18, 2017, at 8:55 AM, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt at oracle.com<mailto:phil.hunt at oracle.com>> wrote:
A few questions following Thursday’s F2F…

Is there ever a time in RISC where a user who has chosen to federate would not be added to the stream between providers?  And if so, doesn’t the IDP already know this? Why wouldn’t an IDP who is a transmitter just do this automatically?

Why wouldn’t an IDP just put a subject, who has consented to federation, in the event list for an audience automatically?

What purpose does it serve to have the receiver call back to register the subject if the receiver has already agreed to an event stream?

Phil

Oracle Corporation, Identity Cloud Services & Identity Standards
@independentid
www.independentid.com<http://www.independentid.com>
phil.hunt at oracle.com<mailto:phil.hunt at oracle.com>






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