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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear all, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Some opinions are posted on Brian’s inputs on 197 issue. Bitbucket is already updated. Seding to wider audience to participate in the discussion. This is also applicable to CIBA core profile
once WG decides to go ahead. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">-------Here is my reply in bitbucket------------------------ and below brian’s comment on bitbucket---------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Note: bitbucket by default will not send any reply to all working group members, hence sending to the e-mail list, If you have already received it's my mistake to resend it again. Apologies I am
a rookie with bitbucket -</span><span style="font-family:"Apple Color Emoji";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">😊</span><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#172B4D">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:9.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#172B4D">the Microsoft example usage is a little bit different compared to the binding_message and client_messages that are
proposed to incorporate in the profile. ]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:9.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#172B4D">In Microsoft Example: Two different messages are being displayed in the consumption device and authentication device.
To convert this example directly to the binding message might have difficulties. However, to retain existing implementations and binding_message concept intact, I would propose the following::<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1">
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<b><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">client_nam</span></i></b><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">e: MANDATORY, a registered client name by the client with the server</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#172B4D;margin-top:7.5pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;background:white">
<b><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">binding_messag</span></i></b><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">e: MANDATORY, as defined in the profile, is a short entropy to display on both consumption
and authentication devices.</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#172B4D;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;background:white">
<b><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">client_messages(s)</span></i></b><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">: an OPTIONAL message given by the client ( RP ) to display it on the authentication
device.</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#172B4D;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;background:white">
<b><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">client_message_verifiication_required</span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"> <b>: OPTIONAL true/false : if true then _client_messag_e is mandatory.
if false, client_message is a non-mandatory item.</b><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:9.0pt;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#172B4D">Existing implementations:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#172B4D"> no
need to change anything.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:9.0pt;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#172B4D">Any new implementation</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#172B4D">s:
they are free to use or not to use client_message(s) and client_message_verified parameter which are any way OPTIONAL. AS suggested by <i>Ryo Ito,</i> there is no harm to introduce OPTIONAL parameters that can go into MODRNA, CORE CIBA profiles.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:9.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#172B4D">PS: If WG had decided to bar any future changes, on NOT a finalized specs is not a good idea or recommendation. Members
are now requesting some extensions that should be respected and considered on not finalized specifications from a global standards working group point of view.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:9.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#172B4D">In My humble opinion, if Microsoft and Google are implementing this functionality in a certain way, why OIDF is barring
it from implementing it in a generalized way ?? is there any specific reason ?? do we have security issue ?? or technical issue ??<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:9.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#172B4D">With the above optional extensions how existing implementations will become VOID ?? or complicated ??<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:9.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#172B4D">PS: The Protocol specifications should be general, and business use cases will decide how to use the protocol with
extensions. Please see CIBA is being used in Finance and Mobile operators world. So, the proposed extensions apply to multiple domains. Instead of a specific use-case, wherever applicable WG should allow broader and domain-independent extensions that are OPTIONAL
that do not impact any existing implementations. From a standards body like OIDF these are good practices to follow does <b><i>not discourage</i></b> <b><i>the majority of the OIDF members.</i></b><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:9.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#172B4D">I think these are good extension OPTIONAL proposals and will be useful to many use cases in different domains.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:9.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#172B4D">Thank you in advance for considering this concept.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:9.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#172B4D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:9.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#172B4D">Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:9.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#172B4D">Siva Boyalakuntla<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:9.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#172B4D">BRUHASPATHI LTD.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Brian Campbell <issues-reply@bitbucket.org><br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, 22 January 2021 at 17:18<br>
<b>To: </b>Siva Boyalakuntla <siva@bruhaspathi.co.uk><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Bitbucket] Issue #197: Clearer Binding Message Verification (openid/mobile)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><img width="32" height="32" style="width:.3333in;height:.3333in" id="_x0000_i1028" src="https://avatar-management--avatars.us-west-2.prod.public.atl-paas.net/initials/BC-1.png?s=128" alt="Brian Campbell"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Brian Campbell</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> commented on issue #197:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="https://bitbucket.org/openid/mobile/issues/197/clearer-binding-message-verification"><span style="color:#3572B0;text-decoration:none">Clearer Binding Message Verification</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Some thoughts:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:0cm">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Although CIBA is still a draft there are implementations, deployments, profiles, conformance tests, etc. of it now. Because of this, the WG had previously agreed that the bar for making changes would
be high. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:0cm">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Anyway, CIBA is a tricky one. It attempts to define an abstract interface between the consumption device / client and the AS/OP without imposing too many assumptions on the capabilities and nature
of the authentication or consumption device themselves. I believe the proposal here places too much knowledge and expectation about the authentication device onto the client.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:0cm">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">This kind of select from list behavior at the authentication device could potentially be accommodated without changes to CIBA by sending a
</span><code><span style="font-size:10.0pt">binding_message</span></code><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> and having the AS side include that value in the list of choices. It’s not ideal but similar to the proposal in terms of
leaky abstraction and fragility. And without a change to spec. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:0cm">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">If we were to make a change to CIBA to better support this kind of authentication device interaction, I’d like to consider a somewhat different approach of introducing a new parameter to the
<a href="https://openid.net/specs/openid-client-initiated-backchannel-authentication-core-1_0-02.html#rfc.section.7.3">
<span style="color:#3572B0;text-decoration:none">Authentication Request Acknowledgement</span></a> that could convey some info about how to complete the authentication process to the user. Call it
</span><code><span style="font-size:10.0pt">user_authn_instructions</span></code><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> for lack of a better name at the moment. Using the Microsoft example, a response to an authentication request might
look like this: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<pre style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:whitesmoke;border:none;padding:0cm;border-radius: 5px"><span style="color:black"> HTTP/1.1 200 OK</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:whitesmoke;border:none;padding:0cm"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:whitesmoke;border:none;padding:0cm"><span style="color:black"> Content-Type: application/json</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:whitesmoke;border:none;padding:0cm"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:whitesmoke;border:none;padding:0cm"><span style="color:black"> Cache-Control: no-store</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:whitesmoke;border:none;padding:0cm"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:whitesmoke;border:none;padding:0cm"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:whitesmoke;border:none;padding:0cm"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:whitesmoke;border:none;padding:0cm"><span style="color:black"> {</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:whitesmoke;border:none;padding:0cm"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:whitesmoke;border:none;padding:0cm"><span style="color:black"> "auth_req_id": "1c266114-a1be-4252-8ad1-04986c5b9ac1",</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:whitesmoke;border:none;padding:0cm"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:whitesmoke;border:none;padding:0cm"><span style="color:black"> "expires_in": 3600,</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:whitesmoke;border:none;padding:0cm"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:whitesmoke;border:none;padding:0cm"><span style="color:black"> "interval": 2,</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:whitesmoke;border:none;padding:0cm"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:whitesmoke;border:none;padding:0cm"><span style="color:black"> "user_authn_instructions" : "Tap the number you see below in your Microsoft Authenticator app to sign in. 84" </span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:whitesmoke;border:none;padding:0cm"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:whitesmoke;border:none;padding:0cm"><span style="color:black"> }</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:whitesmoke;border:none;padding:0cm"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Which would allow the client / consumption device to show something like:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><img border="0" id="_x0000_i1027" src="https://bitbucket.org/repo/8Xd9d5E/images/495955824-microsoft-auth-app-sign-in.png"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">while the authentication device prompts with:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><img border="0" id="_x0000_i1026" src="https://bitbucket.org/repo/8Xd9d5E/images/2006995070-microsoft-auth-app-sign-in-numbers.png"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="https://bitbucket.org/openid/mobile/issues/197/clearer-binding-message-verification"><span style="color:#3572B0;text-decoration:none">View this issue</span></a> or add
a comment by replying to this email. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://bitbucket.org/api/internal/repositories/openid/mobile/issue/197/unwatch/siva-boyalakuntla/a677a7d85042f93566eb955abbeab8c535d351382a2bb6b35bac6351aad233cc/"><span style="color:#3572B0;text-decoration:none">Unwatch this
issue</span></a> to stop receiving email updates. <o:p></o:p></p>
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