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<div>HI Torsten,</div>
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<div>This is a very good point, I hope it is a good argument :-)</div>
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<div>Best,</div>
<div>Gonza.</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">De: </span>Torsten Lodderstedt <<a href="mailto:torsten@lodderstedt.net">torsten@lodderstedt.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Fecha: </span>sábado, 6 de febrero de 2016, 12:04<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Para: </span>Gonzalo Fernandez Rodriguez <<a href="mailto:gonzalo.fernandezrodriguez@telefonica.com">gonzalo.fernandezrodriguez@telefonica.com</a>>, "Lodderstedt, Torsten" <<a href="mailto:t.lodderstedt@telekom.de">t.lodderstedt@telekom.de</a>>,
"<a href="mailto:openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net">openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net">openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Asunto: </span>Re: [Openid-specs-mobile-profile] Preliminary Minutes WG Call 27.1.2016<br>
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<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Hi Gonzalo,<br>
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yes we need to raise awareness on GSMA side. John made some good points why even SPs most likely don't want to see the consequences of such a strict approach.<br>
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I assume the point will be discussed as soon as we are delivering our spec to the GSMA.<br>
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best regards,<br>
Torsten.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 06.02.2016 um 11:58 schrieb GONZALO FERNANDEZ RODRIGUEZ:<br>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">De: </span><Lodderstedt>, Torsten <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:t.lodderstedt@telekom.de">t.lodderstedt@telekom.de</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Fecha: </span>viernes, 5 de febrero de 2016, 17:09<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Para: </span>Gonzalo Fernandez Rodriguez <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gonzalo.fernandezrodriguez@telefonica.com">gonzalo.fernandezrodriguez@telefonica.com</a>>, "<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net">openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net">openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Asunto: </span>AW: [Openid-specs-mobile-profile] Preliminary Minutes WG Call 27.1.2016<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi Gonzalo,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">please see my comments inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Torsten.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">Von:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"> GONZALO FERNANDEZ RODRIGUEZ [<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gonzalo.fernandezrodriguez@telefonica.com"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gonzalo.fernandezrodriguez@telefonica.com">mailto:gonzalo.fernandezrodriguez@telefonica.com</a>]
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<b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag, 29. Januar 2016 14:22<br>
<b>An:</b> Lodderstedt, Torsten; <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net">
</a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net">openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Openid-specs-mobile-profile] Preliminary Minutes WG Call 27.1.2016<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Hi guys,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">In our last call we were talking about different use cases we could come across the the MODRNA Profile spec.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">I have had some meetings with product business from Telefónica, and I would like to share with you some of these use cases that can have impact in the MODRNA profile spec.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">ABILITY TO CHOOSE THE SPECIFIC AUTHENTICATOR</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">As per the conversations that I have had with Biz Product, they want to have the ability to charge different prices to the Service Providers dependant on the authenticator used to authenticate
the user, so it iwould be necessary that the RP would have the chance to choose it in the authentication request. The current draft of the spec only allows to specify “mod-pr” and “mod-mf” to request phising-resistant and multi-factor authentication respectivey,
without taking into account the final authenticator that will be used.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">What ist he expected behavior, if the particular MNO does not support the specific authenticator or if the particular user is not in possession of the specific authenticator?</span></p>
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<div>[Gonzalo] —> When I talk about to choose the specific authenticator, I mean a list in preference order, in such way that if the MNO or the user don’t have one authenticator, the next one in the list will be choosen. Related to the MNO’s, they (product)
are thinking to specify what kind of authenticators the MNO has and which of them they can use. </div>
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<div>I think that this is an important point to talk to GSMA, we need them to talk with the rest of operators, personally I don’t see this point clear and I don’t know if other MNO's product areas are thinking in something similar.</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">CONTROL OF ALLOWED AUTHENTICATORS</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Apart from having different prices according with the used authenticator, there is another feature that they want to have, and it consist in having a control of the authenticators that a Service
Provider can use. They see a need to agree the authenticators to use during the Service Provider onboarding process, in such way if a Service Provider doesn’t hire an authenticator it must not be able to use it. In such case we would need an scope or something
similar to do it otherwise we would need to implement something “ad-hoc”in the specific MC implementation that wants to offer this feature.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">From what I understand, this could be part of the SP-specific client policy. So the MNO knows upfront which authenticators to use/offer for a certain SP. Why do you see a need for
a specific scope value?</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>[Gonzalo] —>You are right, it is not necessary to do it, however it has impact in the implementation because it is a check that you have to do in the middle of the authentication flow. I was thinking about using a new scope as a way to deal with this use
case in an standard way and be able to return an standard error.</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Gonza.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">De: </span></b><span style="color:black"><Lodderstedt>, Torsten <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:t.lodderstedt@telekom.de">t.lodderstedt@telekom.de</a>><br>
<b>Fecha: </b>jueves, 28 de enero de 2016, 8:08<br>
<b>Para: </b>"<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net">openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net</a>" <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net">openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net</a>><br>
<b>Asunto: </b>[Openid-specs-mobile-profile] Preliminary Minutes WG Call 27.1.2016<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">please find below the minutes of today’s call.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">best regards,</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">Torsten.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">Participants:</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">John Bradley</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">Nat Sakimura</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">Florian Walter</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">Jörg Connotte</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">Gonzalo Fernandéz</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">Matthieu Verdier</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">Bjorn Hjelm</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">Torsten Lodderstedt</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">Authentication spec</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">- John guided us through the changes he made in the last revision</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">- The following topics were discussed:</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">* ACR Values: examples for security keys and difference between keys and pwd/pin shall be added</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">* AMR values: add example for amr values (e.g SIM Applet+PIN is represented by “hpop” + “pin”)</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">* short and long form of ACRs: the short shall be used by clients, long form will be used to register the ACR values in the IANA registry (by MODRNA WG)</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">* order of acrs gives RP a way to express its preferences regarding authentication, i.e. bring ARC values in their preferred order
</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">* we stay with two acr values for now, we could add the third (or a forth) value at any time based on experiences/discussions</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">- how to handle TBDs</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">- 6.1. replace by reference to respective OpenID Connect Discovery</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">- 7 length of the binding message – replace by better explanation: message may be truncated
</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">- Mitigations for new security vulnerabilities</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">- discussed different options</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">* copy text from oauth spec</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">* reference current oauth spec</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">* recommend to use “code id_token” instead of “code”</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">* general problem: discussions within OAuth WG are ongoing and outcome cannot really be predicted.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">-> Conclusion: will pass spec to GSMA as is and discuss vulnerabilities and way forward with GSMA</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">MWC</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">- John, Torsten will attend</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">- Nat will probably attend as well (as he will be in Paris at that time)</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">- Gonzalo & Matthieu would attend if we setup a meeting regarding MODRNA</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">- Torsten will talk to GSMA</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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