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Who on this listserve is active in HL7? I used to be, but am not
now. But I am fairly certain that if we want to be influential on
HL7 and Argonaut's work, HEART must initiate and become actively
engaged with HL7.<br>
<div class="moz-signature">
<p><b>Glen F. Marshall</b><br>
Consultant<br>
Security Risk Solutions, Inc.<br>
698 Fishermans Bend<br>
Mount Pleasant, SC 29464<br>
Tel: (610) 644-2452<br>
Mobile: (610) 613-3084<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gfm@securityrs.com">gfm@securityrs.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.SecurityRiskSolutions.com">www.SecurityRiskSolutions.com</a></p>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/6/15 11:26, Kinsley, William
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif;color:#44546A">I
am more concerned with what I interpret as Argonaut’s hard
coding specific security roles and that they are not
representative of the OAuth and UMA approach. This is
serving as a wake call to us (the HEART WG) that without any
guidance from us, they are going to create a de facto
security/privacy standard that will be difficult to unwind
once it is adopted by other projects in the industry.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif;color:#44546A"> Bill</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:agropper@gmail.com">agropper@gmail.com</a> [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:agropper@gmail.com">mailto:agropper@gmail.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Adrian Gropper<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 06, 2015 11:19 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kinsley, William <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:BKinsley@nextgen.com"><BKinsley@nextgen.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Justin Richer <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jricher@mit.edu"><jricher@mit.edu></a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:openid-specs-heart@lists.openid.net">openid-specs-heart@lists.openid.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Openid-specs-heart] Health Relationship
Trust Profile for Fast Healthcare Interoperability Resources
(FHIR) OAuth 2.0 Scopes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">To begin the discussion, I would suggest
three terms with healthcare / generic names:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo1">
Patient / Subject<o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<ul type="disc">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level2 lfo1">
The Subject of the resource when the resource refers to
only one person. The Subject is also the Principal when
they register their resource with the Authorization
Server.<o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
</ul>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo1">
Custodian / Principal<o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<ul type="disc">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level2 lfo1">
The person that registers a resource with an
Authorization Server. This is typically the Resource
Owner (RO).
<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level2 lfo1">
When a Custodian is in control of multiple Subjects,
they are able to identify (name) the separate Subjects
any way they choose.
<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level2 lfo1">
A Custodian can access resources for multiple Subjects
in a single transaction including, for example, a
Patient List.<o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
</ul>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo1">
User<o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<ul type="disc">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level2 lfo1">
Anyone or anything that is not a Subject or a Custodian.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level2 lfo1">
A User can access resources for multiple Subjects in a
single transaction including, for example, a Patient
List.<o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
</ul>
<p>I hope we can map this to FHIR:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo2">
Pseudonymous Subject Resource<o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<ul type="disc">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level2 lfo2">
A resource for a single Subject identified by an opaque
pseudonym as registered with the Authorization Server.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level2 lfo2">
The resource may contain Subject identity information or
not.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level2 lfo2">
When the resource does not contain Subject identity
information, the Authorization Server is responsible for
associating the pseudonyms with an identity.<o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
</ul>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo2">
Multi-Subject Resource<o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<ul type="disc">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level2 lfo2">
A resource for multiple Subjects registered with the
Authorization Server by a Custodian or a User.<o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
</ul>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo2">
Identified Subject Resource<o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<ul type="disc">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level2 lfo2">
A resource for a single Subject that includes Subject
identifying information in the resource URI as
registered with the Authorization Server.
<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level2 lfo2">
An identified subject resource must be protected as
personally identified information (PII).<o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal">Adrian<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 10:05 AM,
Kinsley, William <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:BKinsley@nextgen.com" target="_blank">BKinsley@nextgen.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif;color:#44546A">This
is very informative detail of what the Argonaut
project is doing and I don’t want to deter the
information sharing process. I also think this is
a reminder that these groups are proceeding
without our guidance and that we need to discuss
what is our timeline to produce some type of
guidance to help them implement a process that is
aligned with the finial product the HEART
workgroup delivers. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif;color:#44546A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif;color:#44546A">Bill
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif;color:#44546A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Justin Richer [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jricher@mit.edu"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jricher@mit.edu">jricher@mit.edu</a></a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 06, 2015 8:12 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kinsley, William <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:BKinsley@nextgen.com"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:BKinsley@nextgen.com">BKinsley@nextgen.com</a></a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:openid-specs-heart@lists.openid.net"
target="_blank">openid-specs-heart@lists.openid.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Openid-specs-heart]
Health Relationship Trust Profile for Fast
Healthcare Interoperability Resources (FHIR)
OAuth 2.0 Scopes</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">To
clarify the objective, we were presenting the first
draft of one of the outputs of this working group.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">The
HEART working group exists specifically to create
these technical specifications. All of the
discussions on use cases are intended to drive
work on these specifications. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Also,
the group should note that the terms “patient” and
“user” were imported directly from the Argonauts
projects. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> —
Justin<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On
Oct 5, 2015, at 11:31 PM, Kinsley, William
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:BKinsley@nextgen.com"
target="_blank">BKinsley@nextgen.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif">This
document was presented quickly during
the last few minutes of our call and I
am not sure what the objective was.
However, it did raise some questions
that could not be addressed at the
time, specifically paragraph 2.1
“Permission type” raised some
questions which I broke out below:
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif">1.</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif">The
term “Patient” and “User” seem
misleading and the purpose is not clear.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif">a.</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif">A
patient can have access to multiple
patient records. For example, a parent
who has five children at the same
pediatrician would be a patient that can
access multiple patient records.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif">b.</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif">It
also sounds like we are hardcoding two
specific security roles, which would
seem to contradict what we are trying to
support in HEART (i.e. RBAC vs ABAC).
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif">c.</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif">There
can be resource that are not related to
specific patient or patients in general
such as “Organization”,
“HealthcareService”, “Practitioner”,
etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif">Bill</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<table class="MsoNormalTable"
style="width:448.2pt" border="0"
cellpadding="0" width="598">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
.75pt"><br>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><img
moz-do-not-send="true"
id="_x0000_i1025"
src="http://bridge.nextgen.com/Media/3140"
border="0" height="40"
width="145"><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable"
style="width:448.2pt" border="0"
cellpadding="0" width="598">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><u>
________________________________
</u>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable"
style="width:448.2pt" border="0"
cellpadding="0" width="598">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">William
Kinsley , CISSP<br>
Enterprise Architect, Ambulatory<br>
<b>NEXTGEN HEALTHCARE<br>
</b>Solutions for: Ambulatory,
Inpatient and Community
Connectivity<br>
795 Horsham Road, Horsham, PA
19044<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%28215%29%20657-7010%20x21128"
target="_blank">(215) 657-7010
x21128</a>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:BKinsley@nextgen.com"
target="_blank">BKinsley@nextgen.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.oneugm.com/"
target="_blank"><span
style="text-decoration:none"><img
moz-do-not-send="true"
id="_x0000_i1026"
src="http://bridge.nextgen.com/Media/3181"
border="0"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<table class="MsoNormalTable"
style="width:448.2pt" border="0"
cellpadding="0" width="598">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#E46C0A">Be
ready for MU and ICD-10 in 2015.
Start your EHR version 5.8 and
KBM version 8.3 upgrade today.
Get the resources you need at <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.nextgen.com/upgradecentral"
target="_blank">
<b><i><span
style="color:#007CB9"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.nextgen.com/upgradecentral">www.nextgen.com/upgradecentral</a></span></i></b></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<table class="MsoNormalTable"
style="width:448.2pt" border="0"
cellpadding="0" width="598">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">This
message, and any documents
attached hereto, may contain
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prohibited. If you have received
this message by mistake, please
immediately notify us by
replying to the message and
delete the original message and
any copies immediately
thereafter. Thank you for your
cooperation.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">_______________________________________________<br>
Openid-specs-heart mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Openid-specs-heart@lists.openid.net"
target="_blank">Openid-specs-heart@lists.openid.net</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-heart"
target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-heart</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-heart</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Adrian Gropper MD<br>
<br>
<span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">PROTECT
YOUR FUTURE - RESTORE Health Privacy!<br>
HELP us fight for the right to control
personal health data.<br>
DONATE: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://patientprivacyrights.org/donate-2/"
target="_blank"><span
style="color:#0563C1">http://patientprivacyrights.org/donate-2/</span></a></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
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