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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">For me, one of the key distinctions is
that banking is "valuable stuff that is <i>about</i> us/acts as
our agents" (external) vs health care, which is "valuable stuff
that <i>IS</i> us." Being one step removed, banking is much
easier to game with an industry of middlemen, as systems go.
Health care as an industry is trying to game the same system, but
with people who have more/deeper to lose, and a Regulatorium that
is ostensibly created to protect us. (No comment about how well
this is working, just pointing to intent.)<br>
<br>
j.<br>
<br>
On 8/4/15 8:40 AM, Eve Maler wrote:<br>
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<div>Well, that didn't at all have the intended efffect. I'm
sorry. Let me try again.</div>
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I'm <b>not at all</b> saying we should follow the financial
industry's model! I'm saying that when they transfer data
"behind people's backs", they have exactly the same trouble the
healthcare industry has in identifying people. When an industry
actually invites people in to the process, and gathers their
consent, and learns more about them, then the "online person" is
a participant in the process and is the "head" of their own
account. That gives them the beginnings of control.
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<div>(From this point, you have a technological fulcrum on which
to place individual control in future.)</div>
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<p><b>Eve Maler<br>
</b>ForgeRock Office of the CTO | VP Innovation
& Emerging Technology<br>
Cell +1 425.345.6756 | Skype: xmlgrrl | Twitter:
@xmlgrrl<br>
Join our <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://forgerock.org/openuma/"
target="_blank">ForgeRock.org OpenUMA</a>
community!</p>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 8:17 AM,
Moehrke, John (GE Healthcare) <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:John.Moehrke@med.ge.com" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:John.Moehrke@med.ge.com">John.Moehrke@med.ge.com</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
find it very troubling when the financial industry
is brought up as an example that healthcare should
follow. From a user experience, I agree with Adrian
that it seems to be a well ‘consumer centric’ model.
The reality is that they are not consumer centric,
they act only by force of consumer and often with
payment for transaction fee.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">But
the financial industry are dealing with fungible
assets that can easily be insured and they have
regulated maximum damages. Healthcare has NOTHING
close to this. Further the only reason that the
financial industry communicates is because they are
moving your money, an asset they get to leverage
far beyond the kind of analytics that the healthcare
community is often accused of doing (some rightly
so). The financial world does not communicate in any
way to your benefit, they are perfectly happy having
fragmented and non-aligned assets. Where as in
healthcare there is an expectation that your current
treatment plan is chosen based on your full medical
history, without any piece of information
misunderstood (malpractice). </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">This
said, I am not against the goal that Adrian is
promulgating. I am just frustrated at the overbroad
statements about how wonderful the financial
industry is.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">John</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Openid-specs-heart [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:openid-specs-heart-bounces@lists.openid.net"
target="_blank">openid-specs-heart-bounces@lists.openid.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Eve Maler<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 04, 2015 10:03 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Adrian Gropper</span></p>
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<div class="h5"><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:openid-specs-heart@lists.openid.net"
target="_blank">openid-specs-heart@lists.openid.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Openid-specs-heart] Proposal
for reworked use case AND use case template</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Adrian, your patient vs.
banking identity explanation was really good --
I'm going to steal that one. :-) Warning,
musings on identity and proofing below. Hope
they're marginally interesting/helpful.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In the world of marketing
data brokerage, they deal in heuristic data
about people all the time but don't have to
(or, maybe, even want to) precisely identify a
unique human being. (If you ever want to be
weirded out, read about Acxiom <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.oceanoutdoor.com_site_wp-2Dcontent_uploads_ORCGuideToPersonicx.pdf&d=AwMFaQ&c=IV_clAzoPDE253xZdHuilRgztyh_RiV3wUrLrDQYWSI&r=B4hg7NQHul-cxfpT_e9Lh49ujUftqzJ6q17C2t3eI64&m=BjxAvFx8QWs4XC6iU1PL1lgMCP4YVzdBhh4vu2fWdeU&s=QtcwptaLBxuQh2WeoBs1IhxRnZzLuQe2ljx-h2VKN4A&e="
target="_blank">Personicx</a> psychographics
codes. I had someone in the field tell me she
looked "herself" up in the data warehouse. She
said, "They knew my bra size.")</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In the world of credit data
brokerage, they have much the same problem as
the "offline patient identity" world does,
though with a somewhat different regulatory
environment. If you're in the US and you want
to try and look up the annual free credit
scores that you're entitled to by law, think
about the trouble you have to go through to
identify yourself with multiple-choice
questions about your past financial life.
Outside the US, it's even harder because
privacy laws limit the sources of data. As
demographics shift and more and more people
get comfortably online/mobile, identification
gets easier because an organization funneled
someone through the process once and now owns
the "hygiene" of that credential over time --
<i>everyone</i> can amortize the investment.
However, of course, data privacy gets more
challenging.</p>
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<p><b>Eve Maler<br>
</b>ForgeRock Office of the CTO | VP
Innovation & Emerging Technology<br>
Cell <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B1%20425.345.6756"
value="+14253456756" target="_blank">+1
425.345.6756</a> | Skype: xmlgrrl |
Twitter: @xmlgrrl<br>
Join our <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__forgerock.org_openuma_&d=AwMFaQ&c=IV_clAzoPDE253xZdHuilRgztyh_RiV3wUrLrDQYWSI&r=B4hg7NQHul-cxfpT_e9Lh49ujUftqzJ6q17C2t3eI64&m=BjxAvFx8QWs4XC6iU1PL1lgMCP4YVzdBhh4vu2fWdeU&s=4_28RyfGvM2JnAA2r2PC92ouszRmNenZ1TmMlmOhcg8&e="
target="_blank">ForgeRock.org
OpenUMA</a> community!</p>
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