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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Darran Rolls <me@darranrolls.com> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 10, 2020 7:48 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Matt Domsch <matt.domsch@sailpoint.com>; Anthony Nadalin <tonynad=40microsoft.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; scim@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [scim] SCIM v3?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m going to jump in and reserve an hour on Thursday 25<sup>th</sup> at 11am central US time. Here are the meeting details:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://zoom.us/j/92197243294">https://zoom.us/j/92197243294</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Meeting ID: 921 9724 3294<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Find your local number: <a href="https://zoom.us/u/aedUwgpW02">
https://zoom.us/u/aedUwgpW02</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Darran<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Matt Domsch <<a href="mailto:matt.domsch@sailpoint.com">matt.domsch@sailpoint.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, June 9, 2020 at 11:08 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Anthony Nadalin <<a href="mailto:tonynad=40microsoft.com@dmarc.ietf.org">tonynad=40microsoft.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>>, Darran Rolls <<a href="mailto:me@darranrolls.com">me@darranrolls.com</a>>, "<a href="mailto:scim@ietf.org">scim@ietf.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:scim@ietf.org">scim@ietf.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [scim] SCIM v3?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">We’ll definitely ask for a BOF, or if the charter and its approvals can be done in time, a formal WG session at IETF 108. That may be pushing it, but the area directors think it’s possible. They’ve offered to reserve a time as a BOF now.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I can attend any of Darran’s suggested times for a videoconference.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<br>
Matt <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Matt Domsch</span></b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
</span><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">VP, Lead Corporate Architect</span></i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
<span style="color:#00B5E2"><a href="mailto:matt.domsch@sailpoint.com"><span style="color:#00B5E2">matt.domsch@sailpoint.com</span></a></span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">mobile: 512-981-6486</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#00B5E2">
</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
</span><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#00B5E2"><a href="http://www.sailpoint.com/"><span style="color:#00B5E2">www.sailpoint.com</span></a></span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> scim <<a href="mailto:scim-bounces@ietf.org">scim-bounces@ietf.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Anthony Nadalin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 9, 2020 9:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Darran Rolls <<a href="mailto:me@darranrolls.com">me@darranrolls.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:scim@ietf.org">scim@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [scim] SCIM v3?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It may be better to have a bof for ietf 108. I think there are some updates that could be made to SCIM as we have some things on our list, but I’m not sure that another directory protocol is what is needed<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> scim <<a href="mailto:scim-bounces@ietf.org">scim-bounces@ietf.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Darran Rolls<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 9, 2020 5:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:scim@ietf.org">scim@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [scim] SCIM v3?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So, I read lots of interest to restart and contribute – excellent.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In the interest of rapidly moving towards a strawman charter, I’ll take a first pass at what that charter might look like and send it out here for comment. If no one has any objection, I propose we set a time for an “interest-group call”
mid/late next week? I know it’s tricky and a little unfair to throw out call times without more prior planning BUT if we can move this along quickly we can catch the IETF 108 train.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So, is there support to hold one of the following times next week for a conversation on that (to be sent) strawman charter? LMK if anyone feels that’s too tight or unfair for folks that are interested but can’t make it and we can stick
to a list-only conversation.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">10am Central US Wednesday 24th<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">11am Central US Wednesday 24th<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">---<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">10am Central US Thursday 25th<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">11am Central US Thursday 25th<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">---<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">10am Central US Friday 26th<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">11am Central US Friday 26th<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Darran<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Paul Lanzi <<a href="mailto:paul@remediant.com">paul@remediant.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, June 8, 2020 at 11:30 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Darran Rolls <<a href="mailto:me@darranrolls.com">me@darranrolls.com</a>>, "<a href="mailto:scim@ietf.org">scim@ietf.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:scim@ietf.org">scim@ietf.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [scim] SCIM v3?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Darran, all --<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I think a relook at some of the items you mentioned would be great -- count me in!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On this topic:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">> <span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Ratification of extension to address Privilege Account Management user cases</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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We've had some discussions with the SailPoint folks (most notably: David Lee, Matt Domsch and more recently, Adam C) that the current SCIM-PAM API is very specifically focused on supporting password-vault use cases, and doesn't have an allowance for the Just-In-Time
PAM approach. Both the Identity Defined Security Alliance (IDSA) and Gartner have recently recognized this approach, and I think it would make sense to further extend the SCIM-PAM proposal to also include the use cases around JIT PAM. I'm happy to help contribute
towards the technical work needed to do so.<br>
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Thanks,<br>
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--Paul<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">--Co-Founder @ Remediant<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in"><img border="0" width="32" height="32" style="width:.3333in;height:.3333in" id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:~WRD0003.jpg" alt="Image removed by sender."></span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Gadugi",sans-serif;color:white">ᐧ</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 8:59 AM Phillip Hunt <<a href="mailto:phil.hunt@independentid.com">phil.hunt@independentid.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks Elliot. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">A number of these features including MVA filtering and paging are based on a desire to build front end IDM management UIs to SCIM API providers. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">One could say this would begin to move SCIM from a provisioning protocol to a “directory” protocol. Is SCIM Directory a theme that would drive interest in a new charter?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Phil<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Jun 8, 2020, at 2:38 AM, Eliot Lear <<a href="mailto:lear@cisco.com" target="_blank">lear@cisco.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Paul,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">As a hanger-on, I like your list. I don’t see the value in paging, but clearly a great many others do, so I have something to learn.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Eliot<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 8 Jun 2020, at 10:34, Paul Logston <<a href="mailto:paul.logston@gmail.com" target="_blank">paul.logston@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Darran and Phil, <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I am interested in being part of this discussion. I work for a company that regularly uses the SCIM protocol and we have a use for a number of the extensions Darran suggested above. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Paul<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Paul Logston<br>
(510) 755 - 4474<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue"><a href="mailto:paul.logston@gmail.com" target="_blank">paul.logston@gmail..com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fpaullogston%2F&data=02%7C01%7Ctonynad%40microsoft.com%7Cc861765885a84cf4641708d80c7071b9%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637273024386708033&sdata=7M3nM2ir6U%2BCgYbZOed6DGSflQc4jy7%2FxOE5Bqqpyu0%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">linkedin.com/in/paullogston</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 3:32 AM Phillip Hunt <<a href="mailto:phil.hunt@independentid.com" target="_blank">phil.hunt@independentid.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Darran<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Good to hear!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I am not sure these items require a v3. I believe these all can be done via extensions thus maintaining backwards compatibility. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">For example I did submit a proposal for paged attributes based on the current drafts. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://tools.ietf..org/html/draft-hunt-scim-mv-paging-00" target="_blank">https://tools..ietf.org/html/draft-hunt-scim-mv-paging-00</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I think we have to see if there is sufficient interest to charter a WG and determine interest in specific items. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Another long term issue compliance issues. For this we to find an independent organization to develop and host an interop test suite as compliance testing is not something the IETF does. This will likely require
direct donation of funds and time. This is how things happened for OIDC testing. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Phil Hunt<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Jun 6, 2020, at 10:15 AM, Darran Rolls <<a href="mailto:me@darranrolls.com" target="_blank">me@darranrolls..com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Hello </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:white;background:#6A5A00">SCIM</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> folks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">To introduce myself to the group, up until March of this year I was the CTO at SailPoint and worked with Kelly Grizzle and Matt Domsch on all things identity standards. I'm now consulting and engaging on various projects
around the IAM space. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Having chatted with Leif and Morteza directly, I wanted to bring a discussion back here to the full WG alias. As several of you will already know, I’d like to formally make a request to re-chartering this WG. The
goal of the WG would be to address the ratification of the following work items: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3;background:white">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Protocol /operational enhancements</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<ul type="disc">
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<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo3;background:white">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Multi-value paging & cursor pagination</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo3;background:white">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Relying party user provisioning</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo3;background:white">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Soft Delete</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo3;background:white">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Interop and testing capabilities</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
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<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3;background:white">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">New schema to address</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
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<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo3;background:white">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Extended HR /user data and related action events</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo3;background:white">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Ratification of extension to address Privilege Account Management user cases</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">I therefore seek your comments and input on this proposal. Are you interested to participate? What is missing from the above list of work items? Is there support for an informal interest-group call sometime in
the next two weeks?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Thanks</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Darran<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.darranrolls.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Ctonynad%40microsoft.com%7Cc861765885a84cf4641708d80c7071b9%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637273024386718036&sdata=rCp7YeXBYLgKG8yDmT0IZxp0bcddlPV8JIZNht9mgrY%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563C1">https://www.darranrolls.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fdarran-rolls-068b84&data=02%7C01%7Ctonynad%40microsoft.com%7Cc861765885a84cf4641708d80c7071b9%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637273024386728031&sdata=oLPoy3%2BnrAeO5GMFkP2RVn8WpskrxP7fNIwJx6tCbH8%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" title="https://www.linkedin.com/in/darran-rolls-068b84"><span style="color:#0563C1">LinkedIn</span></a>
<a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdjrolls&data=02%7C01%7Ctonynad%40microsoft.com%7Cc861765885a84cf4641708d80c7071b9%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637273024386728031&sdata=sQK%2B0BI5bKQjCFt78zCeGmd3UIN5QmOfqFuqEmX4ncA%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" title="https://twitter.com/djrolls">
<span style="color:#0563C1">@djrolls</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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