[Openid-specs-fapi] External : Open Banking NG

Thu Oct 31 10:09:25 UTC 2019

On 2019-10-31 09:46, Chris Michael wrote:
> Hi Anders
> 
> Have a look at model https://standards.openbanking.org.uk/customer-experience-guidelines/authentication-methods/decoupled/model-d-psu-with-a-tpp-account/latest/

Hi Chris,

In this case I was mainly thinking about pre-authorization and the accompanying payment order.

That is, I'm basically trying to figure out "Who is doing What with Whom and Why?" :-)

Using the Dual-mode Open Banking API, all participating entities are equipped with statically provisioned keys which contributes to a clean security architecture. Lookup services also play a crucial role for establishing scalable trust among actors.

Since there currently is a whole bunch of competing standards organizations [*] in this space, "now or never" seems to be the case :-)

Kind regards,
Anders

*)
EMPSA
EMVCo
EPC
SWIFT
EBA Clearing
ANSI X9
ISO Financial Standards
W3C

> 
> Once the TPP/Merchant (could be a petrol station or smart home device) has setup a PSU account and bound to the PSU bank account (e.g. via an initial one time re-direct), it is entirely up to them how they initiate a payment - could be voice, number plate recognition, etc. The PSU then gets a push notification in their mobile bank app to authenticate.
> 
> I think there are some incentives (maybe not regulatory) for banks to adopt CIBA and models like this, and this is possibly the most realistic option in the medium term
> 
> 1. Based on an international standard
> 2. Supported now by several vendors which the banks use
> 3. A relatively small extra build for banks who are already FAPI compliant
> 4. Still allows for PSD2/RTS requirements of SCA and Dynamic Linking
> 5. At least the CMA9 banks are all happy with this from a security POV
> 
> 
> 
> Chris Michael
> Head of Technology
> 
> +44 7767 372277
> http://www.openbanking.org.uk
> 2 Thomas More Square, London E1W 1YN
> Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn
> 
> ________________________________________
> From: Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net at gmail.com>
> Sent: 30 October 2019 19:43
> To: Chris Michael; Financial API Working Group List
> Subject: Re: External : [Openid-specs-fapi] Open Banking NG
> 
> Thanx Chris for the prompt response!
> 
> I must admit that I'm not particularly versed in CIBA but have hands-on experience with Open Banking APIs.
> 
> My target is not related to any regulations but rather how to create something bigger like this: https://empsa.org/
> Is that even possible without a standardized mobile client?
> 
> The proposed solution also supports Gas station payments although few (if any) Open Banking APIs are currently ready for this task.
> It would be interesting to know how this is intended to work with the current Open Banking scheme.
> https://app.swaggerhub.com/apis/SWIFT-API/payment-preauthorisation/0.2.1
> does not shed much light on that topic.
> 
> Last but not least the proposed solution stick to the established payment card notion using SVG for visual representation.
> Here is a sample: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6591608038912729088/
> 
> I'm open for working with the OBIE in case there is any interest in this.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Anders Rundgren
> 
> 
> On 2019-10-30 17:35, Chris Michael wrote:
>> Hi Anders
>>
>> The OBIE example below is where all non-essential steps are removed from a redirect authentication. This solves some use cases but, as you state, is notb as good as Apple Pay, especially in a Point of Sale scenario. It would however work for an app-app (e.g. online purchase via a mobile app) scenario.
>>
>> As I am sure you are away, the CIBA standard we developed with/by FAPI WG members does allow much better UX which gets closer to Apple Pay. This is also included in the OBIE standard. However, no ASPSPs are implementing this yet, as it has not been specifically required by any regulators at this time.
>>
>> Here is a working demo of one of the 4 x supported CIBA flows
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXiRhCAYRCE
>>
>> I like your concept below, however creating additional TPP roles may take some time for the industry to get to grips with
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris Michael
>> Head of Technology
>>
>> +44 7767 372277
>> http://www.openbanking.org.uk
>> 2 Thomas More Square, London E1W 1YN
>> Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Openid-specs-fapi <openid-specs-fapi-bounces at lists.openid.net> on behalf of Anders Rundgren via Openid-specs-fapi <openid-specs-fapi at lists.openid.net>
>> Sent: 30 October 2019 15:49
>> To: Financial API Working Group List
>> Cc: Anders Rundgren
>> Subject: External : [Openid-specs-fapi] Open Banking NG
>>
>> Hi FAPIers,
>>
>> This picture from OBIE shows a payment scenario that is very far from Apple Pay:
>> https://standards.openbanking.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/4.1.1-Wireframe.png
>> Yeah, using various kinds of "workarounds and fixes" it can surely be improved, but will that really scale?
>>
>> I have updated the "Dual-mode" Open Banking API proposal which if implemented should make Open Banking payments entirely "on par" with Apple Pay but with the added advantage that it builds on A2A (Account-to-Account) transactions which also is compliant with P2P (Person-to-Person) payments:
>> https://cyberphone.github.io/doc/payments/dual-mode-openbanking-api.pdf
>>
>> To make the proposal more acceptable I have introduced an (optional) TTP role which (unlike PIS) is already known by payment professionals; the Payment Gateway.
>>
>> WDYT?
>>
>> Thanx,
>> Anders
>>
>> On 2019-10-22 07:16, Anders Rundgren wrote:
>>> A months has passed and it begins looking quite promising:
>>>
>>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/andersrundgren_open-banking-api-saturn-my-subversive-activity-6591608038912729088-31sr
>>> Updated: https://cyberphone.github.io/doc/saturn/openbanking-api-for-saturn.pdf
>>>
>>> Anders
>>>
>>> On 2019-09-21 10:26, Anders Rundgren wrote:
>>>> This is probably not a use case people subscribed to this mailing list is particularly interested in.
>>>> However, there are a couple of reason why this is a relevant issue:
>>>> - If the bank can use the API themselves it will likely be better maintained
>>>> - If the consumer payment market rather prefers schemes like Swish, TWINT, MobilePay https://empsa.org/ , <https://empsa.org/> FAPI and similar Open Banking APIs could fall in importance
>>>>
>>>> FWIW, I have just started (yesterday...) to investigate how Open Banking APIs could work in a local scenario:
>>>> https://github.com/cyberphone/swedbank-psd2-saturn
>>>> Swedbank uses the Berlin Group API but I guess the differences (on a higher level) compared to FAPI are not that big.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, since I'm not versed in OAuth2, I wonder if anybody out there have any ideas how to "patch" OAuth2 in such a way that an Open Banking API implementation could work in both local and remote mode without moving [too] many parts?  Local mode = trusted service not needing user consent.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Anders
>>>>
>>>
>>
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> 
> 
> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
> 
> This email is from Open Banking Limited, Company Number 10440081.  Our registered and postal address is 2 Thomas More Square, London, E1W 1YN.  Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Open Banking Limited.
> 
> This email and any attachments are confidential and are intended for the above named only.  They may also be legally privileged or covered by other legal rights and rules.  Unauthorised dissemination or copying of this email and any attachments, and any use or disclosure of them, is strictly prohibited and may be illegal.  If you have received them in error, please delete them and all copies from your system and notify the sender immediately by return email. You can also view our privacy policy (https://www.openbanking.org.uk/privacy-policy).
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