[Openid-specs-fapi] Alive and kicking: draft-cavage-http-signatures

Dave Tonge dave.tonge at momentumft.co.uk
Thu Mar 14 10:09:18 UTC 2019


Yeah a wiki would be good.

I personally think that any relevant headers should be repeated in the JSON
payload.
The person verifying the signature will then need to ensure that what is in
the JSON payload matches what is in the http headers, but I think that is
far less problematic than using the header values themselves to construct
the signing material.



On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 at 10:55, Joseph Heenan <joseph at authlete.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the detail Dave. That was a lot more issues than I expected.
>
> Is it worth us starting a wiki page on our bitbucket (or is a markdown doc
> in git easier?) with a list of all the requirements, choices and pros/cons?
> I think I’d be in favour of that as I suspect there will be a lot of
> repetition in the conversation otherwise. I’m sure we discussed this
> previously at the face to face in Tokyo last year but it’s not mentioned in
> the minutes.
>
> We’ve had a couple of previous discussions:
>
>
> https://bitbucket.org/openid/fapi/issues/100/signing-api-response-payloads
>
>
> https://bitbucket.org/openid/fapi/wiki/FAPI_Meeting_Notes_2018-04-25#rst-header-id8
>
> I think there’s also always been a feeling the IETF oauth working group
> might be a better place to discuss it, but I’m not sure if there’s been any
> progress discussing it there. I don’t obviously see anything on the mailing
> list in the last few months and don’t see anything relevant on the agenda
> for Prague.
>
> Thanks
>
> Joseph
>
>
> On 13 Mar 2019, at 20:56, Dave Tonge <dave.tonge at momentumft.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Hi Joseph
>
> The problem is that there is lots of non-standard stringification and
> parsing as well as other weirdness.
>
> Here are the problems I encountered:
> 1. the draft defines its own set of algorithms rather than just using the
> JWA
> 2. the signing material should be new line separated (why?)
> 3. the header which specifies the alg, what is being signed and the
> signature should be of the form 'Signature key="value",key="value"'
> 4. the header names are case sensitive (against http specs and caused me
> no end of grief as some http client libraries automatically lowercase http
> header names)
> 5. requirement on a date header in a non-standard form
> 6. requirement that http body is completely untouched or the digest will
> break
> 7. relies on the http digest spec (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3230)
> for actual content integrity
> 8. uses a custom header to pass the http method and path (but leaves out
> host?)
>
> When we are mainly talking about signing JSON API requests and responses I
> really don't think its the right way to go.
>
> I agree that it would be a good topic for discussion at the OAuth Security
> Workshop.
>
> Dave
>
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 at 17:25, Joseph Heenan via Openid-specs-fapi <
> openid-specs-fapi at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>
>> I presume the interoperability issues are solvable one way or another?
>>
>> The early reports about OBUK’s signing algorithm seem to be cautiously
>> pessimistic. I’m not sure if OB gave any reasons for not using the IETF
>> cavage draft.
>>
>> I know we’ve discussed it before, but it does seem like the FAPI working
>> group should try and favour one standard, which would also allow us to
>> build interoperability/certification tests for that standard. I think the
>> oauth working group feels similarly. Justin Richer pulled together some of
>> the thoughts at IETF 101 (
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/101/materials/slides-101-oauth-sessa-http-signing-00
>> ) but I’m not sure if the conversation moved on from there.
>>
>> Perhaps it’s one to put on the agenda for the oauth security workshop
>> face-to-face?
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13 Mar 2019, at 16:15, Dave Tonge via Openid-specs-fapi <
>> openid-specs-fapi at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>>
>> Having integrated against it - the draft is terrible.
>>
>> I highly doubt that it is being implemented in an interoperable way.
>>
>> We need a better solution and I'm very much in favour of JSON based
>> signatures - cleartext json would be great, but detached JWTs are still a
>> lot better than http-signatures.
>>
>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 at 16:41, Anders Rundgren via Openid-specs-fapi <
>> openid-specs-fapi at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>>
>>> After posting
>>> https://cyberphone.github.io/ietf-signed-http-requests/hotrfc-shreq.pdf
>>> in the https://open-banking-global.slack.com forum it became clear that
>>> quite a bunch of API builders in the financial sector (including Starling)
>>> indeed have settled on
>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cavage-http-signatures-10.
>>>
>>> Under those circumstances it seems a bit premature suggesting that other
>>> entities should not use it.  That a draft has expired doesn't make it
>>> worthless.
>>>
>>> What's surprising is that I found no traces of any discussions within
>>> the IETF regarding this draft (which IMO doesn't look that bad).
>>>
>>> Note: I'm not advocating for adoption of http-signatures, but for a more
>>> open discussion about the alternatives.
>>>
>>> Thanx,
>>> Anders
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Openid-specs-fapi mailing list
>>> Openid-specs-fapi at lists.openid.net
>>> http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-fapi
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dave Tonge
>> CTO
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>
>
> --
> Dave Tonge
> CTO
> [image: Moneyhub Enterprise]
> <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fmoneyhubenterprise.com%2F&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGUnR5opJv5S1uZOVg8aISwPKAv3A>
> Moneyhub Financial Technology, 5th Floor, 10 Temple Back, Bristol, BS1 6FL
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> Moneyhub Enterprise is a trading style of Moneyhub Financial Technology
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> Financial Services Register (FRN 809360) at fca.org.uk/register. Moneyhub Financial
> Technology is registered in England & Wales, company registration number
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> Moneyhub Financial Technology Limited 2018 ©
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> DISCLAIMER: This email (including any attachments) is subject to
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-- 
Dave Tonge
CTO
[image: Moneyhub Enterprise]
<http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fmoneyhubenterprise.com%2F&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGUnR5opJv5S1uZOVg8aISwPKAv3A>
Moneyhub Financial Technology, 5th Floor, 10 Temple Back, Bristol, BS1 6FL
t: +44 (0)117 280 5120

Moneyhub Enterprise is a trading style of Moneyhub Financial Technology
Limited which is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct
Authority ("FCA"). Moneyhub Financial Technology is entered on the
Financial Services Register (FRN 809360) at fca.org.uk/register.
Moneyhub Financial
Technology is registered in England & Wales, company registration number
06909772 .
Moneyhub Financial Technology Limited 2018 ©

DISCLAIMER: This email (including any attachments) is subject to copyright,
and the information in it is confidential. Use of this email or of any
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Whilst reasonable efforts are made to ensure that any attachments are
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