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    <p>Hi Kai</p>
    <p>the way that the OID4VCs protocols are designed to work is that
      the wallet first acts as an RP and collects together the verified
      data (as verifiable credentials) perhaps long before they are
      needed by any "real RP", using the OID4VCI protocol. The wallet
      user may collect verified data from multiple OPs in their wallet.</p>
    <p>Then when the user approaches the RP, the RP uses the OID4VP
      protocol (along with optionally the SIOPv2 protocol) to request a
      subset of this verified data from the wallet.  (SIOPv2 is used if
      an id_token is required by the RP).<br>
    </p>
    <p>So in this model the RP will need to support both the OID4VP
      protocol (and optionally the SIOPv2 protocol) as well as the
      OIDC4IDA protocol</p>
    <p>Kind regards</p>
    <p>David<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 18/11/2022 11:40, Kai Lehmann via
      Openid-specs-ekyc-ida wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:4D584A7D-4A4E-4645-84A3-E790D43D2F13@1und1.de">
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="DE">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="DE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US">sorry in advance for the long mail ….<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US">I would like to discuss the following use case
            which combines identity assurance and wallet functionality:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US">A relying party would like to have verified
            claims about the End-User.  The OP responsible for that
            End-User may or may not be able to provide the verified
            claims with the restrictions requested by the RP (specific
            trust framework, type of evidence). If the OP is able to
            provide the verified data, it can simply return the data to
            the RP via OIDC4IDA protocol. If it is unable to provide the
            verified claims as is, the OP may trigger an ad-hoc ident
            verification process of the End-User by incorporating a 3rd
            party identification service provider.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US">instead of (or besides) storing the verified
            data at the OP for later use/requests from this or other
            RPs, the OP offers the End-User to store the verified data
            in a Wallet application. In fact, the Wallet application may
            not only able to store identities, but also to provide
            identification services and store the verified identity
            within the Wallet. So the OP just triggers the whole
            identification process with the Wallet application and the
            verified data is then returned by the Wallet – preferably
            using the OIDC4IDA protocol to have a common interface used
            by the RP.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US">Part of the verified claim data is also the
            email address. The identification service is unable to
            verify the email address or we may not want to throw another
            email verification process at the End-User, because the OP
            already knows the email address and verified it. The OP may
            possess additional verified claims which we would like to
            store with the identity inside of the Wallet. The question
            now is, what is the protocol to be used to provide the
            Wallet/Identification service provider with already verified
            data (along with the necessary evidence/process information)
            which should be stored in the Wallet.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US">The Wallet/Identification service provider can
            be seen as a 3<sup>rd</sup> party OP which essentially
            provides the verified claims in the end. So the idea is to
            at least provide the data already verified by the original
            OP and then do another request to the Wallet as OP and
            provide the data as identity assertion. We thought of simply
            providing the ID Token containing the verified data to the
            Wallet OP with the authorize request would fit nicely. The
            parameter id_token_hint may not fit here as id_token_hint is
            supposed to contain the ID Token issued by the same OP and
            not another one. So a different parameter may be more
            appropriate. Whatever is transferred from the original OP to
            the Wallet (directly or indirectly) needs to be signed of
            course so that the Wallet can verify the authenticity and
            integrity.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US">There are drafts regarding Verifiable
            Presentation (<a
href="https://openid.net/specs/openid-4-verifiable-presentations-1_0.html"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://openid.net/specs/openid-4-verifiable-presentations-1_0.html</a>)
            and Verifiable Credentials Issuance (<a
href="https://openid.net/specs/openid-4-verifiable-credential-issuance-1_0.html"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://openid.net/specs/openid-4-verifiable-credential-issuance-1_0.html</a>)
            – the latter is not referenced on the OIDC specs overview
            page, but can be found with Google by the way – which seem
            to cater to the use case I described. However the
            presentation format is based on DID which has some
            similarities with OIDC4IDA verified claims, but has
            significant differences.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US">So are the mentioned drafts the ones which
            should be used in this scenario? How can we make it easier
            for RPs that they do not need to understand both protocols?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US">(I will probably need to address the Connect WG
            as well as they have been working on the mentioned drafts,
            but some authors are also involved in this WG.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US">Kai<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
          1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-GB">From:
              </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
              lang="EN-GB">Openid-specs-ekyc-ida
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:openid-specs-ekyc-ida-bounces@lists.openid.net"><openid-specs-ekyc-ida-bounces@lists.openid.net></a> on
              behalf of Mark Haine via Openid-specs-ekyc-ida
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:openid-specs-ekyc-ida@lists.openid.net"><openid-specs-ekyc-ida@lists.openid.net></a><br>
              <b>Reply to: </b>OpenID eKYC Identity Assurance Working
              Group <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:openid-specs-ekyc-ida@lists.openid.net"><openid-specs-ekyc-ida@lists.openid.net></a><br>
              <b>Date: </b>Wednesday, 16. November 2022 at 15:34<br>
              <b>To: </b>OpenID eKYC Identity Assurance Working Group
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:openid-specs-ekyc-ida@lists.openid.net"><openid-specs-ekyc-ida@lists.openid.net></a><br>
              <b>Cc: </b>Mark Haine <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mark@considrd.consulting"><mark@considrd.consulting></a><br>
              <b>Subject: </b>[OpenID-Specs-eKYC-IDA] Proposed eKYC and
              IDA WG Agenda for 09-16-2022<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
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          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">Hi
                                                          All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">Brief
                                                          review of
                                                          external Orgs
                                                          & Events<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB"> 
                                                                      
                                                          Future
                                                          Identity
                                                          Festival
                                                          London<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">               
                                                          IIW<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">               
                                                          Identiverse
                                                          call for
                                                          papers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">Main
                                                          Agenda Items<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">               
                                                          Shall we move
                                                          to final
                                                          review? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">Review
                                                          PRs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm;text-indent:36.0pt"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">Identity
                                                          Assurance<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">                               
                                                          PR#146 <a
                                                          href="https://bitbucket.org/openid/ekyc-ida/pull-requests/146"
moz-do-not-send="true">
                                                          Updates to
                                                          Authority
                                                          draft</a> -
                                                          Adrian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">Review
                                                          Issues<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm;text-indent:36.0pt"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">Identity
                                                          Assurance<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm;text-indent:36.0pt"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">               
                                                          New<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm;text-indent:36.0pt"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">               
                                                          Close<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm;text-indent:36.0pt"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">               
                                                          Review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:36.0pt"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">Issue
                                                          <a
href="https://bitbucket.org/openid/ekyc-ida/issues/1331/possible-type-confusion-with-distributed"
                                                          title="#1331:
                                                          possible type
                                                          confusion with
distributed/aggregated claims" moz-do-not-send="true">
                                                          #1331:
                                                          possible type
                                                          confusion with
distributed/aggregated claims</a> – Joseph<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:36.0pt"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">Issue
                                                          <a
href="https://bitbucket.org/openid/ekyc-ida/issues/1330/suggest-that-there-be-a-default-for"
                                                          title="#1330:
                                                          Suggest that
                                                          there be a
                                                          default for
                                                          "attachments_supported""
moz-do-not-send="true">
                                                          #1330: Suggest
                                                          that there be
                                                          a default for
"attachments_supported"</a> – Mark<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm;text-indent:36.0pt"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">Advanced
                                                          Syntax for
                                                          Claims<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">                               
                                                          Update from
                                                          Daniel and
                                                          Mark on SAO
                                                          syntax
                                                          thinking<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm;text-indent:36.0pt"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">               
                                                          New<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">                                               
                                                          <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm;text-indent:36.0pt"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm;text-indent:36.0pt"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">               
                                                          Close<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm;text-indent:36.0pt"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">               
                                                          Review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB">Issue
                                                          <a
href="https://bitbucket.org/openid/ekyc-ida/issues/1327/age-verification-examples-in-the-advance"
                                                          title="#1327:
                                                          Age
                                                          verification
                                                          examples in
                                                          the Advance
                                                          Syntax Draft"
moz-do-not-send="true">
                                                          #1327: Age
                                                          verification
                                                          examples in
                                                          the Advance
                                                          Syntax Draft</a>
                                                          - Nat<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB">Issue
                                                          <a
href="https://bitbucket.org/openid/ekyc-ida/issues/1276/sao-output-claim-set-varies-depending-on"
                                                          title="#1276:
                                                          [SAO] Output
                                                          claim set
                                                          varies
                                                          depending on
                                                          evaluation
                                                          order"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true">
                                                          #1276: [SAO]
                                                          Output claim
                                                          set varies
                                                          depending on
                                                          evaluation
                                                          order</a> –
                                                          Daniel<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB">Issue
                                                          <a
                                                          href="https://bitbucket.org/openid/ekyc-ida/issues/1320/claim-controls"
                                                          title="#1320:
                                                          Claim
                                                          Controls"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true">
                                                          #1320: Claim
                                                          Controls</a> -
                                                          Taka<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm;text-indent:36.0pt"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">Authority<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm;text-indent:36.0pt"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">               
                                                          New<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm;text-indent:36.0pt"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm;text-indent:36.0pt"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">               
                                                          Close<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm;text-indent:36.0pt"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm;text-indent:36.0pt"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">               
                                                          Review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB">Issue
                                                          <a
href="https://bitbucket.org/openid/ekyc-ida/issues/1236/act-as-a-staff-but-assert-directors"
                                                          title="#1236:
                                                          Act as a
                                                          staff, but
                                                          assert
                                                          director's
                                                          verified
                                                          claims"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true">
                                                          #1236: Act as
                                                          a staff, but
                                                          assert
                                                          director's
                                                          verified
                                                          claims</a> –
                                                          Mark<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB">Issue
                                                          <a
href="https://bitbucket.org/openid/ekyc-ida/issues/1258/represent-legal-entity-beneficial-owner"
                                                          title="#1258:
                                                          Represent
                                                          legal entity
                                                          beneficial
                                                          owner"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true">
                                                          #1258:
                                                          Represent
                                                          legal entity
                                                          beneficial
                                                          owner</a> 
                                                          Mark<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">               
                                                          Other
                                                          non-draft
                                                          related topics<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">                               
                                                          Additional
                                                          claims and
                                                          structured
                                                          claims<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">                               
                                                          Pending
                                                          Verification<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB">AOB<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin:0cm"><b><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB"> Mark</span></b><span
                                                          lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          </div>
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                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
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