<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Dear Steffen<div><br></div><div><div>Unfortunately I’m finding it a little difficult to follow this email. Can you clarify which spec(s) you are referring to in points 1 & 2 please?</div><div><br></div><div>I think dwelling on the past is not helpful here. I have said it before, but it feels like there could still confusion over it: any agreement that happens outside of the context of the working group does not represent a decision of the working group. This is true even when working group chairs are involved in such a discussion.</div><div><br></div><div>I also want to make clear that everyone (that has signed the contribution agreement and behaves in a constructive manner) is welcome to contribute in the working group, and all working group discussions happen in the open. I don’t believe the working group has ever rejected a proposal without providing an explanation, but if it has happened then I assume it was likely an oversight for which I apologise and if you point me at the relevant GitHub issue / PR I will do my best to find the explanation.</div><div><br></div><div>It is common for the original goals of a particular issue/PR to shift as it is discussed and investigated and different solutions are considered by the working group. It has happened to a number of issues & PRs I have raised and is a sign of healthy debate and careful consideration.</div><div><br></div><div>I think we should focus on how to move forward from where we are.</div><div><br></div><div>On point 3 - If there are problems with what ended up in the OpenID4VP spec then (as discussed) we need the details on use cases that aren't possible logged into an issue please.</div><div><br></div><div>Any solution is possible - if the result of testing SD-JWT VCLD as currently specified ends up showing that it’s a long way from what’s needed then nothing stops the working group from throwing away the problematic part(s) of the specification and starting again. This is a decision purely made by working group consensus. But the first step is to get good deep details on what doesn’t currently work, for what use case, and why it doesn’t work - and log it into an issue in GitHub, including details like the relevant real-world JSON-LD payloads. Do you know when someone will be able to do that?</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks</div><div><br></div><div>Joseph</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 23 Apr 2025, at 08:41, steffen schwalm via Openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols <openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols@lists.openid.net> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">Dear Jan, </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">thanks a lot for the
minutes. Unfortunately, they do not fully reflect the discussed results reg. PR
459.<br><br>1. The contributions from EBSI/Europe (Sancho, Lluis, Nacho, Alen in
CC) so specs. Requirements, analysis on incompatibilities were shared with e.g.
Torsten, Kristina, Daniel and Oliver during the collaboration within the last
1,5 years. </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB">-<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">August 2023 after
meeting with Kristina, Oliver</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB">-<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">24.09.2024 after
meeting with Daniel</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB">-<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">15.11.2024 after
meeting with Daniel, Brian, Oliver</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB">-<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">19.12.2024 after
meeting with Daniel, Kristina, Torsten, Oliver, Brian</span></div><p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt 36pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">-<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">25.02.2025 after session
of whole DCP WG</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">As we guess that </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">a) OIDF or the chairs Torsten
& Kristian or at least </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">b) Daniel has well organized
repository </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">we kindly as the opinion
leading Team Torsten, Kristina, Daniel, Oliver to share those documents with
the WG again. Alen provided the information also in February to the WG. So
those contributions/Specifications do not need to be shared again and again if
the DCP WG is really interested in.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">There was a collaboration between
the opinion leading Team Torsten, Kristina, Daniel, Oliver on the SD-JWT and
-VCDM subject since August 2023 where we finally agreed to include W3VCDM in
SD-JWT VC:</span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB">-<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">ability to reuse
existing vcdm 1.1 code is important </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB">-<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">ability to
transition from vcdm 1.1 code to sd-jwt vcdm code is important </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB">-<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">strict compliance to
vcdm 2.0 is not necessary </span></div><p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt 36pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">-<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">should work both
with and without json-ld processing </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">or stated more precisely
in minutes of DC WG: </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y3milcqMkAHqf4862ANoCA7irg6gNaDI3aNOVaZMoVY/edit?tab=t.0" style="color:rgb(70,120,134)"><span lang="EN-GB">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y3milcqMkAHqf4862ANoCA7irg6gNaDI3aNOVaZMoVY/edit?tab=t.0</span></a><span lang="EN-GB"></span></p><ul style="margin-top:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><b><span lang="EN-GB">“The goal is to add W3C VCDM data model and
processing to this defined credential - secured by SD JWT”</span></b></li>
</ul><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">recognizing the material
shared by Alen on 25.02.2025 to the WG.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">We also clearly state that
during exchanges on the subject no facts from the editors of the PR nor Torsten
or Kristina or anybody else were mentioned that the proposed spec from Alen
& Lluis violates existing specifications. Since the PR is based on the spec
from Alen & Llluis we wonder how Daniel came to his unjustified claim as he
participated in the development of first PR based on Alen/Lluis`s specification
in November 2024. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">So since we experience
those unjustified claims and request to provide same subject again and again since
2023 especially from the Team from SPRIND (Torsten, Kristina, Daniel) and
Oliver we increasingly have the impression that those contributions are not
welcome without notice nor technical justification. This makes an open
discussion quite difficult. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">2. We clearly
state that the specification from Lluis & Alen was basement of the PR and
request to mention both as this seems to be an IPR issue. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">As the spec from Lluis
& Alen was developed with EU funding I guess it`s politically sensitive to
mention their contribution too – especially after this was seemingly forgotten in the
beginning of this PR too. We request to mention them and only delete them by
request from Alen and Lluis.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt">3. We agreed in WG on following:</span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB">-<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">We`ll EBSI) will
test the SD-JWT VCLD to give comprehensive overview what from SD-JWT VCLD does
not work within the use cases</span></div><p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt 36pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">-<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">Based on results a further
discussion may be started</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">We do not agree that any Change of current SD-JWT VCLD must fully
recognize the current version as this would be grotesque, since the possible CR
would aim precisely at changing certain parts of the VCLD spec.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt">If especially the passage that </span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt">any Change of current SD-JWT VCLD must fully recognize this version of the spec is not changed we would assume that a future CR of any form is obviously not welcome by the editors and opinion-leading party (Torsten, Kristina, Daniel, Oliver).</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt">4. Following selected
parts are </span>from the current<span style="font-size:12pt"> point of view clearly incompatible with VCDM that`s why
SD- JWT VCLD is ironically the correct term.</span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB">-<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">Spec was renamed to
VCLD as it clear not covers VCDM </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 72pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Courier New"">o<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">As Markus mentioned the
<u>goal of SD-JWT is enabling JSON-LD
payload with SD.-JWT VC only</u></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 72pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Courier New"">o<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">Processing W3CVCDM
as JSON-LD is only one option in W3CVCDM, the obvious binding to JSON-LD limits
applicability of SD-JWT VCLD for most use cases</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB">-<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">no DID possible as
the PR shows (and as it relies on SD-JWT VC spec <a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/pull/459#issuecomment-2814088690" style="color:rgb(70,120,134)">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/pull/459#issuecomment-2814088690</a>
</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 72pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Courier New"">o<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">confirmed by Daniel
in several meetings (that´s why this extension points were added in VC Spec…)</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB">-<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">Atomic/Micro
Credential as specified in W3CVCDM</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 72pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Courier New"">o<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">No bundling of credentials
possible</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 72pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Courier New"">o<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">Normal as “VCT” value
defined in VCLD Spec MUST be a case-sensitive StringOrURI while Credential type
in W3CVCDM MUST contain a
"type" property. The value of the "type" property MUST be
one or more terms and absolute URL strings. Some other reasons are:</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 108pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:Wingdings">§<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman""> </span></span><span lang="EN-GB">VCT also does not allow any transformation nor
canocalization</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 108pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:Wingdings">§<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman""> </span></span><span lang="EN-GB">The bundling acc. to 8.5/9.5 requires e.g. functionalities
of section B2 VCDM v1.1 and 8,5 v1.1 resp. 9.5 v2.0 which is among other things
needed for atomization of credentials.</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 108pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:Wingdings">§<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman""> </span></span><span lang="EN-GB">The therefore needed type value was deleted and
replaced by VCT</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 108pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:Wingdings">§<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman""> </span></span><span lang="EN-GB">The atomization (as well as the possible reconversation)
are de facto transformations excluded in the current VCLD Spec</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 72pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Courier New"">o<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">That “VCT” is not
enough for Micro credentials was confirmed by Daniel Fett in meeting on
06.12.2024</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 72pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB">-<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman""> </span></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt">OID4VP B1 as
proposed by Daniel does not help at the time of presentation is too late. The
credentials need to be bundled at time of issuance </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 72pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt"> due to legal and business
requirements </span></div><p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt 72pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">-<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman""> </span></span><span lang="EN-GB">We apologize that
the legal and technical requirements from Industry, Manufacturing, HR, creative industry, Data Act, Banking/Finance, Health </span><span style="font-size:12pt">etc.) do not match with the mental model of
SD-JWT VCLD in its current form.</span></p><p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt 72pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt">- That Micro Credentials as
defined in W3CVCDM v1.1/v2.0 not covered
was confirmed by Torsten, Daniel, Joseph several times</span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 72pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt"> -<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman""> </span></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt">Torsten 11.04. in DCP
WG Meeting: Claiming it`s new requirement</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 72pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB"> - Joseph: last week
see GitHub (claiming those requirements were allegedly not submitted, while they were since 1,5 years)</span></div><p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt 72pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB"> - Daniel: 16.04.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt"> beside the fact that
coverage serves the agreed goal to include VCDM in SD-JWT VC) and that the requirements
agreed by DCP WG on </span><span style="font-size:12pt">25.02.2025.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">As not only Micro Credentials
mainly focused on legal entities and B2B use cases and taking into account as
Torsten mentioned that OIDF focus on citizens: </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">If you do not want to
cover those subjects, which could be understandable, the SD-JWT VCLD spec shall
mention the limitation to use inclusion of JSON-LD and coverage of use cases
related to identification of natural entities only. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">Beside this e..g. also other subjects missed in VCLD
(selection from agreed requirements and properties of VCDM):</span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB">-<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">Multi-language support of claim
values is undefined (only multi-language support for the claim names is there) </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-GB">-<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">issuer identifiers are not addressed</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span lang="EN-US">-<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-US">Subject
claims to be grouped and supports hierarchical/complex structure.</span></div><p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt 36pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">-<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-kerning:auto;font-feature-settings:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><span lang="EN-GB">Audience restriction (advanced)/ Terms
of use: support to express sharing and presentation policies, restrictions and
similar information --> no </span><span style="font-size:12pt">property for this defined</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">Against this background we clearly state that the <u>aim
agreed in DCP WG to include VCDM in SD-JWT VC as OIDF also agreed with European
Commission is currently not achieved</u>. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">Also, the requirements presented by Alen in February and
</span><span lang="EN-GB">stated more precisely in minutes of DC WG </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y3milcqMkAHqf4862ANoCA7irg6gNaDI3aNOVaZMoVY/edit?tab=t.0" style="color:rgb(70,120,134)"><span lang="EN-GB">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y3milcqMkAHqf4862ANoCA7irg6gNaDI3aNOVaZMoVY/edit?tab=t.0</span></a><span lang="EN-GB"></span></p><ul style="margin-top:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><b><span lang="EN-GB">“The goal is to add W3C VCDM data model and
processing to this defined credential - secured by SD JWT”</span></b></li>
</ul><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 8pt; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">
<br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB">are currently not achieved as also the </span><span lang="EN-GB">editors and opinion-leading party (Torsten, Kristina,
Daniel, Oliver) already confirmed that certain mentioned subjects are not covered.</span><span lang="EN-GB"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><br></p></div>Best<br><br>Steffen </div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 8:08 AM Jan Vereecken via Openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols@lists.openid.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
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Hi all,</div>
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Please find below the minutes of yesterday's meeting. </div>
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# Attendees</div>
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- Steffen Schwalm</div>
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- Torsten Lodderstedt</div>
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- Timo Glastra</div>
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- Kristina Yasuda</div>
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- Steffen Schwalm</div>
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- Martijn Haring</div>
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- Daniel Fett</div>
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- Geroge Fletcher</div>
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- Christian Bormann</div>
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- Aarom Parecki</div>
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- David Waite</div>
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- Peter Sorotokin</div>
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- Joseph Heenan</div>
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- Michael Jones</div>
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- Mirko Mollik</div>
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- Lee Campbell</div>
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- Nick Steele</div>
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- David Chadwick</div>
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- Tim Cappalli</div>
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- Juda Saadi</div>
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- Yuval Glasner</div>
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- Oliver Terbu</div>
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- Tom Jones</div>
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- Rajvardhan Deshmuk..</div>
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- Bjorn Hjelm</div>
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- Gareth Oliver</div>
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# Agenda</div>
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1. OIDF Antitrust Policy at <a href="http://www.openid.net/antitrust" id="m_-1226335971023965344m_1551174801894968302OWA10fa9de6-d9ae-0a76-e4cc-9db49773b18c" target="_blank">
www.openid.net/antitrust</a> applies / IPR reminder</div>
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2. Formal security analysis: <a href="https://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols/attachments/20250414/4b84c5d0/attachment-0001.pdf" target="_blank">https://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols/attachments/20250414/4b84c5d0/attachment-0001.pdf</a></div>
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[as far as I’m aware, no further agenda items were communicated in advance]</div>
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# Notes</div>
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<b>## Formal Security Analysis</b></div>
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The deliverable has been formally accepted by the WG</div>
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<b>## EIC</b></div>
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Register for the in-person & virtual meetings at:</div>
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<a href="https://dcpwg_eic_05may25.eventbrite.co.uk/" target="_blank">https://DCPWG_EIC_05MAY25.eventbrite.co.uk</a></div>
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<a href="https://dcp-wg-mtg-post_eic_08may25.eventbrite.co.uk/" target="_blank">https://DCP-WG-Mtg-Post_EIC_08May25.eventbrite.co.uk</a></div>
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<b>## Japan Friendly Meeting time</b></div>
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New Japan/Asia friendly call scheduled every two weeks, first call April 24th</div>
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Existing “APAC friendly” is renamed to “Americas friendly” and remains.</div>
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Note that every forthnight there will be 3 WG meetings.</div>
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<b>## OpenID4VP - PR546 - Remove references to 18013-7 from OpenId4VP</b></div>
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<a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/pull/546" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/pull/546</a></div>
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No objections from the WG. Merged into main.</div>
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<b>## OpenID4VP - PR551 - clarify that client identifier prefix specific parameters got to the header in multi RP DC API requests</b></div>
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<a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/pull/551" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/pull/551</a></div>
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Approvals received during call. Nobody needed additional time to review. Merged into main.</div>
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<b>## OpenID4VP - PR555 - Revert to JARM style use of authorization_encrypted_response_alg</b></div>
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<a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/pull/555" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/pull/555</a></div>
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Mike stressed the need for consistent approach wrt other specs.</div>
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WG targets to merge on April 22nd.</div>
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<b>## OpenID4VP - PR556 - Error responses for DC API</b></div>
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<a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/pull/556" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/pull/556</a></div>
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Gareth aims to add privacy part before next call (April 22nd).</div>
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Discussion on the subtle privacy issues that can occur when requests contain, for example, value matching and some privacy sensitive information could be returned. </div>
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<b>## OpenID4VP - PR553 - clarify issuer_signed_alg_values and device_signed_alg_values</b></div>
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<a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/pull/553" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/pull/553</a></div>
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Discussion between Kristina and Martijn on the direction. Conclusion recorded in the ticket.</div>
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<b>## OpenID4VP - PR459 - add sd-jwt vcld</b></div>
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<a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/pull/459" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/pull/459</a></div>
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Torsten introduced the topic. Generalised approach on how SD-JWT VC can be used with json-ld, without explicitly linking it to, for example, VCDM 1.1 or VCDM 2.0.</div>
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Steffen points out that it is crucial that all VCDM functionality, in its completeness, can be used. It is not possible with this approach.</div>
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Conclusion after a long discussion:</div>
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Authors of the PR believe that all properties of VCDM are maintained, but Steffen representing the EBSI project disagrees.</div>
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The WG asks for technical details as to why it does not work for the EBSI project.</div>
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The WG asks for concrete proposals that take into account existing specifications (i.e. following PR)</div>
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PR is merged. WG agrees to test this approach and refine the outcome.</div>
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<b>## Plan for WGLC</b></div>
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5 PRs remaining. Almost there! Joseph to send mail to mailing list.</div>
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Happy easter.</div>
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–Jan</div>
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