<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Hi, <div>Sorry for missing yesterday's call (am at ETSI workshop on EUDIW).</div><div>Few thoughts/comments.</div><div><br></div><div><b>> Joseph asks if anybody objects trying to get new query language into 1.0<br></b></div><div><br></div><div>I am objecting. In short, the motivation is 1) to secure OpenID4VP is referenced by the Implementing Act, 2) to give implementers a stable document (the need for both has been mentioned multiple times during the workshop), and 3) just like mike said,  there are still substantial open points on the new query language and we need implementation experience. </div><div><br></div><div>It is probably worth clarifying that <b>new query language not making it to 1.0 does not mean it will not make it to the second round of the implementing acts</b> - if we work efficiently, and manage to get out 1.1 before the second round gets opens, we can get 1.1 with a new query language referenced in the Implementing Acts. </div><div><br></div><div>Encouragement from the European Commission has been to have shorter release cycle for OpenID4VC specs to address points 1) and 2), and from a risk-management perspective, I believe we should a) publish final with a text that makes it clear that <a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/255">new query lang is allowed</a>, 2) prioritize new query language for 1.1, so once we know clearer when the second round of IAs gets reopened, we are sure new query language is in 1.1.</div><div><br></div></div><div>> Define an ISO mdoc profile for Digital Credential API in OIDF/DCP <a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/219" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/219</a><br><b>- Martjin agreed to make a PR for this one</b><br></div><div><br></div><div>umm...may I ask why? I looked at the issue and the scope of the PR that Martijn will do is not clear to me and the issue does not feel ready for PR to me. Where is it documented how the WG agreed to address topics clarified in <a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/219#issuecomment-2294048268">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/219#issuecomment-2294048268</a> ? Would be better to discuss and clearly document those first.</div><div><br></div><div>Define claims display description and claims path query - <a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VCI/pull/276" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VCI/pull/276</a><br><b>- there is a bug in metadata that would need to be fixed</b><br></div><div><br></div><div>I think the open question is whether we want/need to fix this issue and merge this PR before going final. There might be good reasons to do so (align with IETF SD-JWT VC metadata, this is a breaking change so if we do not do it now, we might have to wait until 2.0), but would like us, first, to agree we want it before final.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Kristina</div><div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 10:11 PM Paul Bastian via Openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols@lists.openid.net">openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols@lists.openid.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>

  
    
  
  <div>
    <p>Hi,</p>
    <p>here are the notes from today's call:</p>
    <p># Attendees<br>
      Andres Olave<br>
      Bjorn Helm<br>
      Brian Campbell<br>
      Christian Bormann<br>
      Daniel Fett<br>
      Denver-9-Mount Sneffels<br>
      Edmund Jay<br>
      Gareth Oliver<br>
      Hicham Lozi<br>
      Jan Vereecken<br>
      John Bradley<br>
      Joseph Heenan<br>
      Lee Campbell<br>
      Lukasz Jaromin<br>
      Martjin Haring<br>
      Michael Jones<br>
      Oliver Terbu<br>
      Paul Bastian<br>
      Ryan Galluzzo<br>
      Sam Goto<br>
      Sebastien<br>
      Steve Venema<br>
      Tom Jones<br>
      <br>
      # Discussion about Timeline for standard publication<br>
      - Marjin thinks new query language should go in before 1.0<br>
      - Lee asks whether it makes sense to wait with 1.0 for longer time
      and get into the next implementing act round<br>
      - Joseph responds that we already missed first round of eIDAS
      implementing acts and aim for second round, fear of missing out,
      but there might be even a third<br>
      - situation is that 1.0 feels like a step in the door and waiting
      for too long may be too much of a gamble<br>
      - Lee agrees but also sees the risk that we get stuck with PE<br>
      - Joseph says that we will have PE probably anyway through ISO mDL<br>
      - people ask how much effort needs to be done for squeezing new
      query language in<br>
      - Mike points out there are substantial open points and we need
      implementations<br>
      - Joseph asks if anybody objects trying to get new query language
      into 1.0<br>
      - Daniel will provide summary and update on Thursday call<br>
      <br>
      # How can verifiers that support multiple trust models/ecosystems
      know how to authenticate to the wallet? <br>
      - <a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/248" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/248</a><br>
      - Verifier doesn't know with which certificate to sign the request<br>
      - allow multiple signatures?<br>
      - John points out this architecture is nuts, instead Wallet should
      figure out that Verifier is correct to his trust model, e.g. with
      trust marks<br>
      - different issuers will have different RP policies<br>
      - Lee thinks RP shouldn't care about the Wallet at that point but
      about the issuers<br>
      - Daniel thinks RP is talking to ecosystems<br>
      - Brian points back to the issue, in the context of BrowserAPI
      already has requests parameter to allow this instead of using JWS
      json serialization<br>
      - Christian says we need embedded issuer policies (in credential
      itself or metadata) to cleanly solve this<br>
      - Martjin thinks in the long run solutions may unite and may not
      need it, but in the short run complications may be expected,
      allowing multiple RP certificates may smooth this<br>
      - John: we probably need to do it and fix it later "if it falls
      over", hinting to OpenID Federation<br>
      - Daniel explains the suggestion, that reuses JWS JSON
      Serialization<br>
      <br>
      # Deferred endpoint fixing it?<br>
      - there seem to be some issues with Deferred Issuance flow<br>
      - if you are aware of any problems please report!<br>
      <br>
      # Define claims display description and claims path query -
      <a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VCI/pull/276" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VCI/pull/276</a><br>
      - there is a bug in metadata that would need to be fixed<br>
      - please provide Feedback!<br>
      <br>
      # Permit the use of the new query language instead of presentation
      exchange.  <a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/255" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/255</a><br>
      - small issue that enables the new query language without a
      breaking change<br>
      - we need PR!<br>
      <br>
      c_nonce PR: Are we going to mandate support of nonce endpoint for
      issuers that require nonces?
<a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VCI/pull/381#pullrequestreview-2292605172" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VCI/pull/381#pullrequestreview-2292605172</a><br>
      - this removes c_nonce from token endpoint and introduces a new
      nonce endpoint instead<br>
      - we need more feedback on this!<br>
      <br>
      client_id_scheme security (
      <a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/124" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/124</a> )<br>
      - trying to solve this topic in the next weeks<br>
      - please connect to editors if you want to help!<br>
      <br>
      Add extensibility to Credential Response #386 -
      <a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VCI/issues/386" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VCI/issues/386</a><br>
      - add extensiability to Credential Response, e.g. for ARKG handles
      in the future<br>
      - three options are provided<br>
      - Option#2 with breaking change, but currently favored.<br>
      - please provide feedback!<br>
      <br>
      Key attestation first draft PR - please review: 
      <a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VCI/pull/389" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VCI/pull/389</a><br>
      - Draft PR for key attestation that helps Issuers for regulated
      use cases, needed for eIDAS<br>
      - looking for early feedback here!<br>
      <br>
      Define an ISO mdoc profile for Digital Credential API in OIDF/DCP
      <a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/219" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/219</a><br>
      - Martjin agreed to make a PR for this one<br>
      <br>
      Best regards,<br>
      Paul<br>
    </p>
    <div>On 10.09.24 20:59, Joseph Heenan via
      Openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols wrote:<br>
    </div>
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                                          <div>Hi All,</div>
                                          <div> </div>
                                          <div>Below is the suggested
                                            agenda for today's DCP WG +
                                            SIOP call at 12:00 midday PT
                                            (now, sorry it’s late!), <a href="https://zoom.us/j/94085567252?pwd=cHNFMExFalhlM2MrOFhoN3J6eDRuZz09" target="_blank">https://zoom.us/j/94085567252?pwd=cHNFMExFalhlM2MrOFhoN3J6eDRuZz09</a></div>
                                          <div><br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <ol>
                                              <li style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">IPR
                                                reminder/ Note-taking</li>
                                              <li style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">Introductions/re-introductions</li>
                                              <li style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">Agenda
                                                bashing/adoption</li>
                                              <li style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">Events/External
                                                orgs</li>
                                              <li style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">Consensus
                                                around proposed plan for
                                                moving VP/VCI to 1.0
                                                final: <a href="https://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols/Week-of-Mon-20240909/000443.html" target="_blank">https://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols/Week-of-Mon-20240909/000443.html</a></li>
                                              <li style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">New
                                                Query language in 1.0?</li>
                                              <li style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">How
                                                can verifiers that
                                                support multiple trust
                                                models/ecosystems know
                                                how to authenticate to
                                                the wallet? <a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/248" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/248</a></li>
                                              <li style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">Deferred
                                                endpoint fixing it?</li>
                                              <li style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">Define
                                                claims display
                                                description and claims
                                                path query -
                                                <a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VCI/pull/276" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VCI/pull/276</a></li>
                                              <li style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">Permit
                                                the use of the new query
                                                language instead of
                                                presentation exchange. 
                                                <a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/255" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/255</a></li>
                                              <li style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">c_nonce
                                                PR: Are we going to
                                                mandate support of nonce
                                                endpoint for issuers
                                                that require nonces? <a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VCI/pull/381#pullrequestreview-2292605172" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VCI/pull/381#pullrequestreview-2292605172</a></li>
                                              <li style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">client_id_scheme
                                                security ( <a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/124" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/124</a>
                                                )</li>
                                              <li style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">Wallets
                                                authenticating to
                                                verifiers: <a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/141" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/141</a></li>
                                              <li style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">Mike’s
                                                extensibility PRs <a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/227" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/227</a>
                                                <a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VCI/pull/382" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VCI/pull/382</a>
                                                (Kristina’s comment on
                                                latter)</li>
                                              <li style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">Add
                                                extensibility to
                                                Credential Response #386
                                                - <a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VCI/issues/386" target="_blank">https://</a><a href="http://github.com/openid/OpenID4VCI/issues/386" target="_blank">github.com/openid/OpenID4VCI/issues/386</a></li>
                                              <li style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">Key
                                                attestation first draft
                                                PR - please review: 
                                                <a href="https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VCI/pull/389" target="_blank">https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VCI/pull/389</a></li>
                                              <li style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">Issues
                                                ready for PRs - who can
                                                help please?</li>
                                              <li style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">PRs
                                                needing
                                                reviews/discussions</li>
                                              <li style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:13px;line-height:normal;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";font-kerning:auto;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-feature-settings:normal">Other
                                                Open PRs/Issues</li>
                                            </ol>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>Thanks</div>
                                          <div><br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>Joseph</div>
                                          <div><br>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
    </blockquote>
  </div>

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</blockquote></div></div>