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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/09/2023 20:53, Joseph Heenan via
      Openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols wrote:<br>
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    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:A4FA4D3E-29A2-40B2-BF39-04F02CC1055C@authlete.com">
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      Hi Tom
      <div><br>
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      <div>Focussing on this particular document, is your concern
        resolved if sentences like this:</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>"Identity of Holder: A Verifier can trust that the party
        presenting the claims in a session with the Verifier is
        (controlled by) the subject of the claims.”</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>(From <a
href="https://github.com/vcstuff/oid4vc-security-and-trust/blob/main/draft-oid4vc-security-and-trust.md#trust-in-the-issuer-holder-verifier-model"
          moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/vcstuff/oid4vc-security-and-trust/blob/main/draft-oid4vc-security-and-trust.md#trust-in-the-issuer-holder-verifier-model</a>)</div>
      <div><br>
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      <div>are replaced with something like this:</div>
      <div><br>
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      <div>
        <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">"Identity
          of Holder: A Verifier can trust that the party presenting the
          claims in a session with the Verifier is (controlled by) the
          party that the credential was intended to be issued to.”</div>
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    <p>I don't think the above is precise enough, since the credential
      could have been passed from the first holder to the second holder
      and then to the verifier. Therefore I propose</p>
    <p>"Identity of Holder: A Verifier can trust that the party
      presenting the claims in a session with the Verifier is the party
      who is authorised to hold the credential (from the Verifier's
      perspective).”</p>
    <p>The text in parentheses is important for at least the following
      reasons</p>
    <p>a) the credential could be a bearer credential<br>
    </p>
    <p>b) the verifier may be willing to completely ignore who the
      issuer intended the credential to be presented by and therefore
      will allow anyone to present it, e.g. because the verifier gains a
      benefit from entering into a session with the holder.</p>
    <p>We have real life examples the above in the physical world.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Kind regards</p>
    <p>David<br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:A4FA4D3E-29A2-40B2-BF39-04F02CC1055C@authlete.com">
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      <div>?<br>
        <div><br>
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        <div>Thanks</div>
        <div><br>
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        <div>Joseph</div>
        <div><br>
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <div>On 12 Sep 2023, at 16:06, Tom Jones via
              Openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols@lists.openid.net"><openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols@lists.openid.net></a>
              wrote:</div>
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                    data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
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                      <div>One major problem with the OAuth model and
                        this contribution is the conflation of the
                        subject and the holder.</div>
                      <div>To be inclusive these two roles may be
                        entirely different entities.</div>
                      <div>It seems to be that this conflation must be
                        excised if OAuth is to be acceptected as the
                        digital credential model to be used for
                        government supplied rights and privileges.</div>
                      <div><br>
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                      <div>..tom</div>
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              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">
                <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Sep 11, 2023
                  at 8:14 AM Daniel Fett via
                  Openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols <<a
href="mailto:openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols@lists.openid.net"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols@lists.openid.net</a>>
                  wrote:<br>
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                    <p>Hi all,</p>
                    <p>I'd like to contribute the "Security and Trust"
                      document to the DCP WG: <a
                        href="https://github.com/vcstuff/oid4vc-security-and-trust"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/vcstuff/oid4vc-security-and-trust</a></p>
                    <p>It has been discussed earlier, but had no
                      official status so far. <br>
                    </p>
                    <p>-Daniel<br>
                    </p>
                  </div>
                  -- <br>
                  Openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols mailing
                  list<br>
                  <a
href="mailto:Openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols@lists.openid.net"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                    class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols@lists.openid.net</a><br>
                  <a
href="https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols"
                    rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols</a><br>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
              -- <br>
              Openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols mailing list<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols@lists.openid.net">Openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols@lists.openid.net</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols">https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols</a><br>
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