[Openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols] WGLC for OpenID for Verifiable Presentations Final

Daniel Fett mail at danielfett.de
Thu Apr 24 10:21:15 UTC 2025


Am 23.04.25 um 10:26 schrieb steffen schwalm via 
Openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols:
>
> Beside this I oppose against to bring OID4VP in current version in 
> next step: DCQL only requires to write query per credential format 
> which is weird - in comparison to presentation exchange. Recommend to 
> open the door for presentation exchange as optional possibility.

We had lengthy discussions on how to design DCQL and whether it should 
replace PE or not. I find it surprising that you raise that point now 
without having voiced your concerns about DCQL being "weird" in any of 
the earlier discussions.

As a summary for you, here are the main reasons why we designed DCQL the 
way it is and why the WG chose to remove PE:

- A single query for multiple credential formats was not a requirement.

- The differences are really as minimal as they can be.

- There will always be differences in how credentials are requested 
depending on the format - in particular, for matching types (W3C) vs 
VCTs (SD-JWT VC) vs doctypes vs ...; these differences also exist when 
you use PE.

- If you don't request a specific type/VCT/doctype, just querying for 
claims (which you can do in a largely format-independent way) is not 
considered useful, as the claims don't have a meaning without the 
type/VCT/doctype etc..

- Implementers have given us /very/ positive feedback on DCQL and voiced 
support for removing PE due to its complexity. There are also potential 
security issues.

- We have seen many incomplete implementations of PE, leading to 
interoperability issues.

- Keeping PE as an optional feature introduces interoperability issues.


-Daniel



>
> Best
> Steffen
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 23, 2025 at 12:39 AM Joseph Heenan via 
> Openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols 
> <openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>
>     Hi Tom
>
>     To repeat what I added to on the issue a few days ago,
>     https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/333#issuecomment-2816774542 :
>
>     I've read back through this issue. There seem to be a number of
>     questions I've asked Tom that I've not obviously got answers to,
>     such as "To try and clarify: you agree that user consent is
>     happening, your doubt is to whether the consent is sufficiently
>     informed?". Being unable to narrow down exactly what Tom believes
>     the problem is or isn't is significantly hampering figuring out if
>     there's a problem that needs to be solve in the specification or not.
>
>
>     I think we've replied to every point Tom has raised, with the
>     possible exception of not fully replying to this one:
>
>
>         Digital identity wallets must ascertain the identity of
>         Verifiers and determine whether these Verifiers possess the
>         necessary authorisation or obligation to request Verifiable
>         Credentials (VCs) or claims.
>
>         I don't see how OID4VP provides that - all i see is a URL that
>         the user must decide whether to trust.
>
>
>     I already explained that OID4VP provides for this via
>     https://openid.github.io/OpenID4VP/openid-4-verifiable-presentations-wg-draft.html#name-client-identifier-prefix-an (for
>     example, x509_san_dns defined there does not require the user to
>     declare whether they trust a URL or not, it can be PKI certs that
>     assert a trusted name for the verifier etc) but it's perhaps also
>     worth sharing that the "possess the necessary authorisation or
>     obligation to request Verifiable Credentials (VCs) or claims."
>     part is being solved in an EU specific way, there was a
>     presentation about this at the recent IIW:
>
>     https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1s-MM27j4ZxACf0ecuVBGbuj8o4C5kr9g62jXeby0wso/edit#slide=id.g34994030800_0_349
>
>
>     My understanding of the current situation:
>
>
>      1. Tom believes that OID4VP can be used in ways that are not
>         compliant with laws such as EU GDPR / EUDI wallet regulations
>         (a point that I believe there is agreement on, given many
>         things are out of scope for OID4VP and defined by local
>         ecosystem requirements/laws)
>      2. Tom doesn't like the way verifier authentication was done at
>         the California hackathon.
>      3. Everyone (except for Tom?) seems to believes OID4VP can also
>         be used in a way that is compliant with such laws
>
>
>     Is this a correct summary?
>
>
>     (Mirko also added a comment with more detail on how this would
>     work in
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Joseph
>
>
>>     On 18 Apr 2025, at 11:35, Tom Jones
>>     <thomasclinganjones at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>     i do not believe the spec is ready.
>>     see https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/333
>>
>>     Peace ..tom jones
>>
>>
>>     On Sat, Apr 12, 2025 at 2:12 PM Joseph Heenan via
>>     Openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols
>>     <openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>>
>>         Dear DCP Working Group Members,
>>
>>         As discussed on the Friday working group call we would like
>>         to get WG consensus that the OpenID4VP draft is ready to
>>         start the final specification approval process.
>>
>>         Please respond to this email within the next 7 days, by end
>>         of Sunday 20th April, whether you believe the draft should
>>         proceed to the public review or not.
>>         The OpenID4VP document to be reviewed can be found here:
>>         https://openid.net/specs/openid-4-verifiable-presentations-1_0-26.html
>>
>>         There are a couple of normative changes that we discussed
>>         during the working group meeting on Friday to work on during
>>         working group last call:
>>
>>         1. revamp vp formats:
>>         https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/pull/500
>>
>>         2. Specifies value matching for mdocs via a reference to
>>         cbor-to-json: https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/pull/538
>>
>>         3. Remove references to ISO 18013-7 to avoid confusion due to
>>         it using OID4VP ID2:
>>         https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/issues/519
>>
>>         4. Remove anoncreds for now (hoping to add it back in 1.1)
>>         due to lack of implementation experience with DCQL etc:
>>         https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/pull/539
>>
>>         We’d also expect some editorial/non-normative changes during
>>         WGLC.
>>
>>         We also discussed scheduling a meeting to talk about the
>>         sd-jwt vcld pr:
>>         https://github.com/openid/OpenID4VP/pull/459 (a separate
>>         email about this will follow shortly.)
>>
>>         If there are other topics working group members think need to
>>         be handled before the specification moves to final please
>>         reply to this email with details.
>>
>>         This is very much just a step on the journey, and it is
>>         likely that comments will arrive during the 60 day review
>>         period that the working group chooses to fix before the
>>         voting period starts.
>>
>>         The details of the specification approval process can be
>>         found here:
>>         https://openid.net/wg/resources/approving-specifications/.
>>
>>         This email is about the first bullet point on this list
>>         "Obtain working group consensus to propose foundation-wide
>>         approval of the draft specification", which is often called
>>         Working Group Last Call (WGLC).
>>         The following steps are to start a 60-day Foundation-wide
>>         review, followed by the 7 day voting period (the poll itself
>>         will open 7 days before the end of the Foundation-wide review
>>         ends).
>>
>>         Kindest Regards,
>>         Editors & Chairs
>>
>>         -- 
>>         Openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols mailing list
>>         Openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols at lists.openid.net
>>         https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols
>>
>
>     -- 
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>     Openid-specs-digital-credentials-protocols at lists.openid.net
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>
>
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