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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I realize it was Christmas week but it$B!G(Bs been a week and we$B!G(Bve
heard nothing from any of the other specs council members on this proposal (or
the other one as well).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Do we need to schedule a conference call so we can close this
out?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> --
Mike<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
specs-council-bounces@openid.net [mailto:specs-council-bounces@openid.net] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Mike Jones<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 23, 2008 10:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Sakimura Nat; David Recordon<br>
<b>Cc:</b> specs-council@openid.net; general@openid.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thus far I believe that only David and I have weighed in on this.
Before I jump in again, I$B!G(Bd be interested in knowing the views of Johnny, Brad,
Dick, Josh, and Allen.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>What do the other 5 of you have to say about this proposal?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>
-- Mike<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Sakimura Nat
[mailto:n-sakimura@nri.co.jp] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 23, 2008 4:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Sakimura Nat; David Recordon; Mike Jones<br>
<b>Cc:</b> general@openid.net; specs-council@openid.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>P.S. Below, I used the word "Algorithm" but it is not
referring to something akin to RSA-SHA1 etc. Rather, it is the method to create
a signature base string from a subset of the tag-values in OpenID message. Word
such as "scheme" may be more appropriate. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Nat
Sakimura (=nat)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div id=divRpF969748>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span lang=ZH-CN
style='font-size:10.0pt'>$B:9=P?M(B</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> specs-council-bounces@openid.net
[specs-council-bounces@openid.net] </span><span lang=ZH-CN style='font-size:
10.0pt'>$B$O(B</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
Sakimura Nat [n-sakimura@nri.co.jp] </span><span lang=ZH-CN style='font-size:
10.0pt'>$B$NBeM}(B</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><b><span lang=ZH-CN style='font-size:10.0pt'>$BAw?.F|;~(B</span></b><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 2008</span><span
lang=ZH-CN style='font-size:10.0pt'>$BG/(B</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>12</span><span lang=ZH-CN style='font-size:
10.0pt'>$B7n(B</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>24</span><span
lang=ZH-CN style='font-size:10.0pt'>$BF|(B</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 9:10<br>
</span><b><span lang=ZH-CN style='font-size:10.0pt'>$B08@h(B</span></b><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> David Recordon;
Mike Jones<br>
<b>CC:</b> general@openid.net; specs-council@openid.net<br>
</span><b><span lang=ZH-CN style='font-size:10.0pt'>$B7oL>(B</span></b><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal
to create the TX working group</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Thanks. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
did not know that specs-council list is actually subscribable. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
now have subscribed to it. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From
what I see from the archive, the biggest objection seems to be the signature. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>>
"A Public Key Cryptography based digital signature method", but isn't
it already </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>>
defined how to sign chunks of XML? Why would the working group be
developing </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>>
a new signature mechanism?</span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Let
me explain on it. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>CX
is not XML based. It is tag-value based. I do not think there is any
generalized public key based signature algorithm that enables one to sign
tag-value based on name spaces. What is defined in OAuth comes close, but
it needs generalization as it is specific to OAuth. If there s a generalized
such method, please point it to me. I understand that AuthN 2.1 would be
looking at doing it. However, it is not there yet so it cannot be cited. Once
it gets citable, I envision that it will be citing it instead of incorporating
it into the CX spec. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>For
other points, it would be appreciated very much if you could explicitly
state the points. Then, I would be replying to them.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>By
the way, from the process point, I believe that the specs council needs
to be stating one of the reason stated in "4.2 Review". It needs
to be one of </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>(a)
an incomplete Proposal (i.e., failure to comply with $B!x(B4.1);<br>
<br>
(b) a determination that the proposal contravenes the OpenID
community's purpose;<br>
<br>
(c) a determination that the proposed WG does not have
sufficient support to succeed </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
or to deliver proposed deliverables within projected completion dates; or<br>
<br>
(d) a determination that the proposal is likely to
cause legal liability for the OIDF or others.<br>
<br>
On what point the current proposal falls into? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Regards,
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>=nat</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div id=divRpF26306>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span lang=ZH-CN
style='font-size:10.0pt'>$B:9=P?M(B</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> David Recordon [recordond@gmail.com]<br>
</span><b><span lang=ZH-CN style='font-size:10.0pt'>$BAw?.F|;~(B</span></b><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 2008</span><span
lang=ZH-CN style='font-size:10.0pt'>$BG/(B</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>12</span><span lang=ZH-CN style='font-size:
10.0pt'>$B7n(B</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>24</span><span
lang=ZH-CN style='font-size:10.0pt'>$BF|(B</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 2:54<br>
</span><b><span lang=ZH-CN style='font-size:10.0pt'>$B08@h(B</span></b><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Mike Jones<br>
<b>CC:</b> Sakimura Nat; specs-council@openid.net<br>
</span><b><span lang=ZH-CN style='font-size:10.0pt'>$B7oL>(B</span></b><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal
to create the TX working group</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I think that's a reasonable
recommendation, though would like to first approach Nat to see if the charter
can be made to address these concerns and then resubmitted for review.<br>
<br>
--David<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:20 PM, Mike Jones <<a
href="mailto:Michael.Jones@microsoft.com">Michael.Jones@microsoft.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I have to agree with David that
this charter is far from minimal or specific in many respects. One of my
concerns is the same as David's below <span lang=ZH-CN>–</span> when XMLDSIG
and other signature algorithms already exist, it is incumbent upon the
proposers to justify the creation of yet another, incompatible signature
algorithm.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>It is therefore my recommendation
that the specifications council communicate something like this position to the
membership to guide their vote about this working group:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The
OpenID Specifications Council recommends that members reject this proposal to
create a working group because the charter is excessively broad, it seems to
propose the creation of new mechanisms that unnecessarily create new ways to do
accomplish existing tasks, such as digital signatures, and it the proposal is
not sufficiently clear on whether it builds upon existing mechanisms such as AX
1.0 in a compatible manner, or whether it requires breaking changes to these
underlying protocols.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>We, as a specs council, have an
obligation to promptly produce a recommendation prior to the membership
vote. My stab at our recommendation is above. Wordsmithing
welcome. If you disagree, please supply alternate wording that you think
we should use instead.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>
-- Mike</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'> David Recordon [mailto:<a href="mailto:recordond@gmail.com">recordond@gmail.com</a>]
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Sent:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'> Monday, December 22, 2008 10:20 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nat Sakimura<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Mike Jones; <a href="mailto:specs-council@openid.net">specs-council@openid.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Subject:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'> Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working
group</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>To update Nat's note, the proposal is actually
at <a href="http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups%3AContract_Exchange_1"
target="_blank">http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups%3AContract_Exchange_1</a>
(the wiki doesn't like periods in URLs).<br>
<br>
While the number of specifications listed has been reduced, it still feels
nebulous in terms of what will be produced as laid out by the purpose and
scope. For example, the scope says that the working group will develop
"A Public Key Cryptography based digital signature method", but isn't
it already defined how to sign chunks of XML? Why would the working group
be developing a new signature mechanism?<br>
<br>
--David<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p>On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Nat Sakimura <<a
href="mailto:n-sakimura@nri.co.jp">n-sakimura@nri.co.jp</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The most current version is here: <a
href="http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups:Contract_Exchange_1.0"
target="_blank">http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups:Contract_Exchange_1.0</a><br>
<br>
Since AX 2.0 WG is spinning up, I have removed it from the possible output of
this WG.<br>
<br>
=nat<br>
<br>
Mike Jones wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
Forwarding this note to the list to kick off the actual specs council work on
this spec<span lang=ZH-CN>$B!D(B</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>[Deleted
the rest of the thread to bring the message below the current 40K list size
limit]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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