From nat at sakimura.org  Tue Jul  1 01:29:03 2025
From: nat at sakimura.org (Nat Sakimura)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2025 10:29:03 +0900
Subject: [OIDFSC] Closing the HEART working group
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Message-ID: <CAKa=1t7jG-KrCh6stqZFpHDH-v_M4Gwxi8QREerJ4Hdje7hr7w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mike,

Regarding the scheduling of the board vote, the Executive Committee meeting
is scheduled for this Thursday. Therefore, it would be ideal if we could
finalize our report by then to present this recommendation to the board.

Best regards,
Nat


2025?7?1?(?) 8:15 Michael Jones <michael_b_jones at hotmail.com>:

> I believe that everyone except for John has weighed in.  How do we
> schedule the board vote to close the working group?
>
>
>
>                                                                 -- Mike
>
>
>
> *From:* specs-council <openid-specs-council-bounces at lists.openid.net> *On
> Behalf Of *Michael Jones via specs-council
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 24, 2025 12:44 PM
> *To:* Nat Sakimura <nat at sakimura.org>; Dima Postnikov <dima at postnikov.net>
> *Cc:* Mark Haine <mark at considrd.consulting>; Mike Leszcz <
> mike.leszcz at oidf.org>; blhjelm at gmail.com;
> openid-specs-council at lists.openid.net; Gail Hodges <gail at oidf.org>;
> majordan at visa.com
> *Subject:* Re: [OIDFSC] Closing the HEART working group
>
>
>
> Yes, I would advocate leaving the working group pages for closed working
> groups in place.  That said, I suggest that we add a ?Closed Working
> Groups? section to https://openid.net/wg/ - after the set of current WGs
> and before the ?How Working Groups Work? content.
>
>
>
> As I see it, we don?t need special handling for contact information for
> closed working groups because we?ll still have links to all the specs.  And
> the specs include contact information for all the authors.
>
>
>
> We should, however, indicate in the closed WG pages, such as
> https://openid.net/wg/eap/ and https://openid.net/wg/heart/, that the
> working group has been closed.
>
>
>
>                                                                 -- Mike
>
>
>
> *From:* Nat Sakimura <nat at sakimura.org>
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 22, 2025 11:46 PM
> *To:* Dima Postnikov <dima at postnikov.net>
> *Cc:* Mark Haine <mark at considrd.consulting>; Mike Leszcz <
> mike.leszcz at oidf.org>; michael_b_jones at hotmail.com; blhjelm at gmail.com;
> openid-specs-council at lists.openid.net; Gail Hodges <gail at oidf.org>;
> majordan at visa.com
> *Subject:* Re: [OIDFSC] Closing the HEART working group
>
>
>
> Hi Dima,
>
>
>
> These are indeed excellent questions, and I concur with your points. It's
> crucial to establish a clear contact email address for inquiries related to
> the specifications, especially for critical matters such as security
> reports. This would provide a dedicated channel for external parties to
> reach out with any questions or concerns, ranging from simple
> clarifications to urgent security vulnerabilities.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Nat
>
>
>
>
>
> 2025?6?23?(?) 14:16 Dima Postnikov via specs-council <
> openid-specs-council at lists.openid.net>:
>
> I am supportive too.
>
>
>
> Will the WG page still be available (in the closed section, I assume), and
> can we have a contact email address for people who have questions about the
> specifications?
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 at 13:37, Mark Haine via specs-council <
> openid-specs-council at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> I am supportive of closing down HEART WG.  It is also great that MikeL has
> done the hard work to collect the facts relating to other dormant groups ?
> THANKS MIKE! This is an important hygiene factor for the foundation.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark Haine
>
>
>
> +44 (0) 777 555 0344 <+447775550344> | mark at considrd.consulting |
> considrd.consulting <https://www.considrd.consulting/> | 30 The Grange,
> Irvine.  KA11 2EU
>
>       [image: OpenID Logo] <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: specs-council <openid-specs-council-bounces at lists.openid.net> on
> behalf of Mike Leszcz via specs-council
> <openid-specs-council at lists.openid.net> Date: Thursday, 19 June 2025 at
> 13:21 To: michael_b_jones at hotmail.com <michael_b_jones at hotmail.com>,
> blhjelm at gmail.com <blhjelm at gmail.com> Cc:
> openid-specs-council at lists.openid.net
> <openid-specs-council at lists.openid.net>, Gail Hodges <gail at oidf.org>,
> majordan at visa.com <majordan at visa.com> Subject: Re: [OIDFSC] Closing the
> HEART working group <https://considrd.consulting/>*
>
> Hello all, <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> As background, I started addressing dormant working groups 2H 2024.
> <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> Below is my analysis of WGs that I viewed as dormant and shared these
> details (September 2024) with Gail, Marie, and Mike Jones:
> <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>    - *EAP (co-chairs Mike Jones & Brian Campbell)
>    <https://considrd.consulting/>*
>
>
>    - 10/14/21 -- last WG mail list activity (not including
>       announcements):
>       https://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-eap/Week-of-Mon-20211011/000092.html
>       <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>
>    - 3/12/20 -- last published WG meeting notes:
>       https://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-eap/Week-of-Mon-20200309/thread.html
>          <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>
>    - *FastFed (co-chairs Tim Cappalli, Darin McAdams, and Erik Gustavson)
>    <https://considrd.consulting/>*
>
>
>    - 8/17/22 -- last WG mail list activity (not including announcements):
>       https://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-fastfed/Week-of-Mon-20220815/thread.html (announcing
>       WG meetings resuming but it doesn?t seem to have occurred)
>       <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>
>    - 3/16/22 -- last published WG meeting notes:
>       https://bitbucket.org/openid/fastfed/wiki/WGMeeting-2022-03-16
>       <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>
>    - *HEART (chair Deb Bucci) <https://considrd.consulting/>*
>
>
>    - 3/31/22 -- last WG mail list activity (not including announcements):
>       https://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-heart/Week-of-Mon-20220328/001796.html
>       <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>
>    - 4/7/2020 -- last published WG meeting notes:
>       https://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-heart/Week-of-Mon-20200406/001743.html
>       <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>
>    - *R&E (chair Davide Vaghetti) <https://considrd.consulting/>*
>
>
>    - 6/21/21 -- last WG mail list activity (not including announcements):
>       https://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-rande/Week-of-Mon-20210621/000304.html
>       <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>
>    - 5/10/21 -- last published WG meeting notes:
>       https://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-rande/Week-of-Mon-20210510/000302.html
>       <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> Additional notes: <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>    - Specific to the HEART discussion Deb Bucci supports closing the
>    HEART WG as she confirmed via email.  <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>
>    - Mike J is winding down the EAP WG as we're aware. When we started
>    this process, he noted that it was his plan to get the EAP Final Spec
>    published and then sunset the WG so I appreciate Mike J's efforts in this
>    regard. <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>
>    - We agreed we would give FastFed additional time to see if that work
>    would resume. It hasn't so I recommend I contact the FastFed WG co-chairs
>    to get their temperature for sunsetting the WG.
>    <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>
>    - Davide Vaghetti asked to wait until this time to see if the R&E work
>    would continue. I'll follow-up with Davide to see where things stand since
>    our last communication at the beginning of the year.
>    <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> I'll follow-up once I have updates on FastFed and R&E.
> <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> Best, <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> Mike <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> MIKE LESZCZ : OPERATIONS DIRECTOR : OPENID FOUNDATION
> <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> *mike.leszcz at oidf.org : +1 803.239.7750 <https://considrd.consulting/>*
>
> <https://considrd.consulting/>
> ------------------------------
> <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: Michael Jones <michael_b_jones at hotmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, June
> 18, 2025 7:51 PM To: blhjelm at gmail.com <blhjelm at gmail.com> Cc:
> openid-specs-council at lists.openid.net
> <openid-specs-council at lists.openid.net>; Gail Hodges <gail at oidf.org>; Mike
> Leszcz <mike.leszcz at oidf.org> Subject: RE: [OIDFSC] Closing the HEART
> working group <https://considrd.consulting/>*
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> The HEART specifications would remain as-is in the closed HEART working
> group, with no further work on them.  This is exactly the same fate as
> awaits the OpenID Connect Token Bound Authentication specification in the EAP
> working group, once it is closed in two weeks.
> <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> And, for example, it?s the same situation as the OpenID Simple
> Registration Extension specification, which was abandoned in 2006 without
> being finished.  There?s lots of non-final specifications that work is no
> longer happening on, for lots of different reasons.
> <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>                                                                 -- Mike
> <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: Bjorn Hjelm <blhjelm at gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2025 4:42
> PM To: Michael Jones <michael_b_jones at hotmail.com> Cc:
> openid-specs-council at lists.openid.net; Gail Hodges <gail at oidf.org>; Mike
> Leszcz <mike.leszcz at oidf.org> Subject: Re: [OIDFSC] Closing the HEART
> working group <https://considrd.consulting/>*
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> Hi Mike, <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> I agree that there hasn't been much activity in the HEART working group
> for a while. My assumption would be that the specifications in the HEART
> working group would be transferred to the AB/Connect working group. Is my
> understanding correct? Are there any outstanding open issues that need to
> be closed? <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> Kind Regards, <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> Bjorn <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> On Wed, Jun 18, 2025 at 9:43?AM Michael Jones via specs-council <
> openid-specs-council at lists.openid.net> wrote:
> <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> Now that we have a repopulated Specifications Council, I believe it?s
> time that we exercise our responsibility to recommend closing of a working
> group. <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> Section 4.4 of
> https://openid.net/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/OIDF_Process-Document_Final_2024-10-19.pdf
> says: <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> The Specifications Council may recommend closure of a WG at any time that
> the WG has not had Minimum Membership for six consecutive months at the
> time of closure, and such recommendation will promptly be submitted for a
> Supermajority confirmation vote of the Board, in accordance with the voting
> procedures in ?3. <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> Section 4.7 says: <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> The Specifications Council may recommend closure of a WG at any time that
> the WG has not had an Editor for the immediately prior 30 days, and such
> recommendation will promptly be submitted for a Supermajority confirmation
> vote of the Board, in accordance with the voting procedures in ?3.
> <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> There hasn?t been any e-mail sent to the working group mailing list, other
> than by Mike Leszcz, since March 2022.  The last commit to the working
> group repository was in 2018. <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> If there was ever a clear candidate for closure, this is it!
> <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> Spec council members (John, Mark, Dick, Bjorn, Dima, Nat), please
> reply-all with your thoughts. <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>                                                                 -- Mike
> <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>
> <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>   <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> -- <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> Kind Regards, <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
> Bjorn <https://considrd.consulting/>
>
>
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