[OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group
Nat Sakimura
sakimura at gmail.com
Thu Jan 22 11:16:24 UTC 2009
Here is the short summary of the call. It's just a draft.
Attendants please fix it if needed.
----
Subject: Contract Exchange WG proposal / charter
Date: Jan 21, 2009 15:05PST
Present: David Recordon (From the specs council), Nat Sakimura, Tatsuki
Sakushima, Henrik Biering (Proposers)
All the attendant joined the telecon after reading the current proposal on
the wiki.
Proposers explained that they had 1 hour call last Thursday and solidified
the proposal.
David commented that the previously pointed out issues such as "sequence of
" was removed
and it now clearly states that it is basing on OpenID AuthN and AX specs.,
so it looks solid as well.
The consensus among the participant was that it is ready to go.
Next steps was that David, as a committee liaison to contact the specs
council members
to have their vote so that it can proceed to the membership vote together
with OpenID-OAuth Hybrid WG.
The meeting was adjourned at 15:20PST
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 3:06 PM, David Recordon <recordond at gmail.com> wrote:
> Next steps are moving forward with the CX proposal. It would be great if
> you could please vote on both it and the OpenID/OAuth Hybrid proposals which
> are on the table.
>
> --David
>
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Allen Tom <atom at yahoo-inc.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Please accept my apologies for missing the call today, I'm quite a bit
>> behind on my mail, and just saw the meeting invitation just now. Are there
>> any meeting minutes or action items?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Allen
>>
>>
>>
>> David Recordon wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, talk to you at 3pm Pacific.
>>
>> --David
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Tatsuki Sakushima <tatsuki at nri.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Members of the Spec Council and the CX WG Proposers,
>>>
>>> Since two members(David and Allen) from the Spec Council are available on
>>> 21st tomorrow,
>>> I'd like to schedule a telcon on 3pm 1/21. (Some of us have an ORMS
>>> telecon from 2pm, I'll make it start 5 mins passed 3pm.)
>>>
>>>
>>> Here is the access information for the conference bridge tomorrow:
>>>
>>> Date: Thursday, 15 January 2009 USA
>>> Time: 3:05PM - 4:05AM(PST)
>>> (This is PST. Please see the time at your time zone at Doodle.)
>>> TO ACCESS THE AUDIO CONFERENCE:
>>> Dial In Number: 1 (605) 475-4333
>>> Access Code: 199834
>>>
>>> For the proposers,
>>>
>>> Even though you don't update your schedule yet, please feel free to join
>>> the meeting.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Tatsuki
>>>
>>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>> (1/20/09 2:14 PM), Tatsuki Sakushima wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thank you, David.
>>>>
>>>> To the proposers,
>>>>
>>>> Please update your availability on 3pm of 21st as well.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Go to http://www.doodle.com/rat2s87iyeqxd79z
>>>> 2. Click "Edit an entry"
>>>> 3. Click a little icon right next to your name
>>>> 4. Apply the change
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to close this poll by the 9pm on PST today and send the
>>>> conference bridge information to participants.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>>>> TEL:(650)638-7258
>>>> SkypeIn:(650)209-4811
>>>>
>>>> (1/20/09 12:59 PM), David Recordon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> 3pm Pacific works for me on the 21st. I'll update my Doodle response.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone Classic.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 20, 2009, at 9:59 AM, Tatsuki Sakushima <tatsuki at nri.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I temporarily add 3:00pm of 21st. When Mike or David suggest the time
>>>>>> good for them,
>>>>>> I'll update it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tatsuki
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (1/19/09 5:30 PM), Nat Sakimura wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What time woud be good then?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =nat
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 5:45 AM, Mike Jones <
>>>>>>> Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I could do some other times that day but not that hour.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- Mike
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: specs-council-bounces at openid.net
>>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council-bounces at openid.net>
>>>>>>> [mailto:specs-council-bounces at openid.net
>>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council-bounces at openid.net>] On Behalf Of Drummond
>>>>>>> Reed
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 8:43 PM
>>>>>>> To: 'Nat Sakimura'; 'David Recordon'; 'Tatsuki Sakushima'
>>>>>>> Cc: specs-council at openid.net <mailto:specs-council at openid.net>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Right now I could do the 21st at 15:00PST.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =Drummond
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: specs-council-bounces at openid.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council-bounces at openid.net> [mailto:specs-council-
>>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council->
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> bounces at openid.net <mailto:bounces at openid.net>] On Behalf Of Nat
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sakimura
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 6:45 PM
>>>>>>>> To: David Recordon; Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>>> Cc: specs-council at openid.net <mailto:specs-council at openid.net>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What about other people for 21st 15:00 PST?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tatsuki, could you add that date to the doodle poll as well?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> =nat
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> From: "David Recordon" <recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 3:51 PM
>>>>>>>> To: "Tatsuki Sakushima" <tatsuki at nri.com <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>
>>>>>>>> Cc: <specs-council at openid.net <mailto:specs-council at openid.net>>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks, though neither of those times work for me unfortunately
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> but any
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> time the 21st should.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <tatsuki at nri.com <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As many of you suggested using Doodle.com, I created the event
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> there:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.doodle.com/rat2s87iyeqxd79z
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please update your schedule there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tatsuki
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>>>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (1/15/09 5:04 PM), Tatsuki Sakushima wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Dear the Specifications Council members (especially David and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mike) and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the proposers of the CX WG,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Upon the request by David, I re-schedule this teleconference to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the next
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> week.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please reply this message and specify the option that you
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> prefer. Based
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> on replies from all participants who intend to join, I'll set up a
>>>>>>>>> conference bridge and email them the information.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I suggest the following schedules as candidate dates:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1) 4:00pm on 1/22(PST)
>>>>>>>>> 12:00am on 1/22(GMT)
>>>>>>>>> 9:00am on 1/23(JST)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2) 2:00pm on 1/23(PST)
>>>>>>>>> 10:00pm on 1/23(GMT)
>>>>>>>>> 7:00am on 1/24(JST)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In the OIDFSC mailing list, David already stated and explained
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> concerns
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> about the previous charter submitted by Nat:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-December/000045.html
>>>>>>>>> http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-December/000046.html
>>>>>>>>> http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-December/000027.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The group of the proposers(Nat, Drummond, John, Henrik and Tatsuki)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> gathered today to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> discuss how to change the charter that does hopefully eliminate the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> concerns mentioned in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the messages from Mike and David. The updated version is on the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> wiki page:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups%3AContract_Exchange_1
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please take another look at it before the teleconference and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> provide us
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> feedbacks
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> so that we can discuss about the new charter.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you have any comments or concerns about scheduling and so forth,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> please let me know.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>> Tatsuki
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>>>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (1/15/09 2:50 PM), David Recordon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Tatsuki,
>>>>>>>>> I'm really sorry but it turns out that I must have mixed up my
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> days when
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> looking at the times yesterday. I have a two hour meeting at 3pm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> today.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Is it possible to try to plan this call more than a day in
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> advance for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> next week?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sorry,
>>>>>>>>> --David
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 12:09 AM, Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <tatsuki at nri.com <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> David and Mike Jones from the spec council responded for this
>>>>>>>>> invitation.
>>>>>>>>> David can join a conference call on the 1) slot, so I'd like
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> schedule
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a call on the date below:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, 15 January 2009 USA
>>>>>>>>> Time: 3:05PM - 4:05AM(PST)
>>>>>>>>> 11:05PM on 1/15(GMT)
>>>>>>>>> 8:05PM on 1/16(JST)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> TO ACCESS THE AUDIO CONFERENCE:
>>>>>>>>> Dial In Number: 1 (605) 475-4333
>>>>>>>>> Access Code: 199834
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From the proposers side, I confirmed that Nat, Drummond, John,
>>>>>>>>> and I can join. Unfortunately Mike Graves and Henrik cannot join
>>>>>>>>> because both of them are not available on the 1) slot but on
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the 2).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>> Tatsuki
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>>>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (1/14/09 1:59 PM), Tatsuki Sakushima wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I suggest the following schedules as candidate dates:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1) 2:00pm on 1/15(PST)
>>>>>>>>>> 10:00pm on 1/15(GMT)
>>>>>>>>>> 7:00am on 1/16(JST)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, there is a XRI TC telecon that many of us join.
>>>>>>>>> Therefore, I suggested a hour moved back on 1). The new
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> schedule
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> is below:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1) 3:00pm on 1/15(PST)
>>>>>>>>> 11:00pm on 1/15(GMT)
>>>>>>>>> 8:00am on 1/16(JST)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sorry for members in Europe. I might be hard to join it
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> at this
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> hour.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>> Tatsuki
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>>>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>>>>>>>>> TEL:(650)638-7258
>>>>>>>>> SkypeIn:(650)209-4811
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (1/14/09 1:45 PM), Tatsuki Sakushima wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (The options of the schedules have the same number. I
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> send the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> collection and please discard the previous one.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dear the Specifications Council members (especially David
>>>>>>>>> and Mike) and
>>>>>>>>> the proposers of the CX WG,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Upon the request of scheduling a call by Nat, I'd like to
>>>>>>>>> invite all the
>>>>>>>>> members of the spec council and the CX WG proposers to a
>>>>>>>>> teleconference
>>>>>>>>> to discuss how to solve the charter clarification and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> scope
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> concerns
>>>>>>>>> pointed out by the spec council.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I suggest the following schedules as candidate dates:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1) 2:00pm on 1/15(PST)
>>>>>>>>> 10:00pm on 1/15(GMT)
>>>>>>>>> 7:00am on 1/16(JST)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2) 2:00pm on 1/16(PST)
>>>>>>>>> 10:00pm on 1/16(GMT)
>>>>>>>>> 7:00am on 1/17(JST)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please reply this message and specify the option that you
>>>>>>>>> prefer. Based
>>>>>>>>> on replies from all participants who intend to join, I'll
>>>>>>>>> set up a
>>>>>>>>> conference bridge and email them the information.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In the OIDFSC mailing list, David already stated and
>>>>>>>>> explained concerns
>>>>>>>>> about the previous charter submitted by Nat:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> December/000045.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> December/000046.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> December/000027.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think that the goal of this telecon is:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a) For the proposers to clarify points of concerns
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> raised by
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the council
>>>>>>>>> and explain intentions of the WG.
>>>>>>>>> b) For the spec council to provide concrete
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> suggestions to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> make the
>>>>>>>>> charter comfortable and reasonable to the spec
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> council and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the community .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you have any comments or concerns on this message,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> please
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> let me know.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>> Tatsuki
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>>>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (1/13/09 12:15 AM), Nat Sakimura wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tatsuki,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Could you kindly set-up a followup call, please?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In the mean time though, I would like to ask spec
>>>>>>>>> council members for the response towards the answers
>>>>>>>>> given by the proposers to your concerns. Any concrete
>>>>>>>>> suggestion to make it acceptable to the spec
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> council is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> also welcome. It's a wiki, after all.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As to the "community support", it would probably
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> depend
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> on what "community".
>>>>>>>>> The proposers are probably talking of higher value
>>>>>>>>> transaction users, and if we do it in timely
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> manner, I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> am pretty confident that it will have some
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> traction, but
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> it needs to happen fast. If we take too much
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> time, the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> opportunity will go away from OpenID.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> =nat
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2009/1/1 Drummond Reed
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net><mailto:
>>>>>>> Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net><mailto:
>>>>>>> Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net><mailto:
>>>>>>> Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net><mailto:
>>>>>>> Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> First, I agree with Henrik's comments (see his
>>>>>>>>> separate email).
>>>>>>>>> Second, to say, "I do not believe that it
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> currently
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> has sufficient
>>>>>>>>> support within the OpenID community to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> succeed", did
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> you see the
>>>>>>>>> list of proposers for this workgroup?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * Drummond Reed,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com><mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com><mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com><mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com><mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com>>>>,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cordance/Parity/OASIS (U.S.A)
>>>>>>>>> * Henrik Biering,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> hb at netamia.com <mailto:hb at netamia.com><mailto:hb at netamia.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com><mailto:hb at netamia.com <mailto:
>>>>>>> hb at netamia.com>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com><mailto:hb at netamia.com <mailto:
>>>>>>> hb at netamia.com>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com><mailto:hb at netamia.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com>>>>,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Netamia (Denmark)
>>>>>>>>> * Hideki Nara, hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic- <mailto:hdknr at ic->
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tact.co.jp <http://tact.co.jp>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>>>,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tact Communications (Japan)
>>>>>>>>> * John Bradeley,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> jbradley at mac.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com><mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com><mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com><mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com><mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com>>>>,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OASIS IDTrust Member Section (Canada)
>>>>>>>>> * Mike Graves,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com><mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com><mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com><mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com><mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com>>>>,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> JanRain, Inc. (U.S.A.)
>>>>>>>>> * Nat Sakimura, n-sakimura at nri.co.jp
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp><mailto:n- <mailto:n->
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sakimura at nri.co.jp <mailto:sakimura at nri.co.jp>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp><mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp
>>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp><mailto:n- <mailto:n->
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sakimura at nri.co.jp <mailto:sakimura at nri.co.jp>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp><mailto:n- <mailto:n->
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sakimura at nri.co.jp <mailto:sakimura at nri.co.jp>>>>, Nomura
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Research Institute,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ltd.(Japan)
>>>>>>>>> * Robert Ott,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com><mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com><mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com><mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com><mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com>>>>, Clavid
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (Switzerland)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * Tatsuki Sakushima,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tatsuki at nri.com <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>>>,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> NRI America, Inc. (U.S.A.)
>>>>>>>>> * Toru Yamaguchi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> trymch at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com><mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com><mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com><mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com><mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com>>>>,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cybozu Labs (Japan)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In short, my first reaction to reading your
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> email was
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to think,
>>>>>>>>> "Wow, here it is, the first example of OpenID
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> turning
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> into W3C and
>>>>>>>>> IETF and every other standards organization that
>>>>>>>>> turns into a small
>>>>>>>>> group of insiders trying to control innovation!"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Of course I think you, more than almost
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> anyone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> can appreciate the
>>>>>>>>> irony of that thought - I believe it was to avoid
>>>>>>>>> that very
>>>>>>>>> situation that the OIDF was created, no?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So if we DON'T want that to happen, I
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> think what
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> we need to do ASAP
>>>>>>>>> is turn this into a constructive dialog
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> between the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> proposers of
>>>>>>>>> this Working Group and the Specs Council about how
>>>>>>>>> the charter might
>>>>>>>>> be amended to addess some of your concerns.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (I'm not
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> commenting yet
>>>>>>>>> on your specific concerns, other than to say
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> agree with some
>>>>>>>>> and not with others.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I suspect email is going to be much too
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> slow for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> such a dialog, so I
>>>>>>>>> would suggest that Nat and Tatksuki set up a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> telecon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> between the
>>>>>>>>> Working Group proposers and the Specs Council
>>>>>>>>> members. I would also
>>>>>>>>> suggest that before such a telecon, the Specs
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Council
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> get together
>>>>>>>>> and collectively list their issues with the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Charter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> on the Working
>>>>>>>>> Group Charter page. I have added a section for
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> purpose:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups%3AContract_Exchange_1#cSpecification
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> CouncilIssues
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It may be that all the Specs Council members
>>>>>>>>> agree with your four
>>>>>>>>> points below, in which case you can just wholesale
>>>>>>>>> copy them into
>>>>>>>>> the wiki page. However it is very important
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Specs Council
>>>>>>>>> come to it's own consensus about the issues it has
>>>>>>>>> with the charter,
>>>>>>>>> because without that, the WG proposers have no
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of addressing
>>>>>>>>> these issues, either with counterarguments or with
>>>>>>>>> potential amendments.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Listing the issues there also enables us
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to have
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a more focused
>>>>>>>>> discussion than email alone by using comments
>>>>>>>>> directly on the wiki page.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> =Drummond
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *From:* David Recordon
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com><mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com><mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com><mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com><mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com>>>>]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:33 AM
>>>>>>>>> *To:* Nat Sakimura
>>>>>>>>> *Cc:* specs-council at openid.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council at openid.net><mailto:specs- <mailto:specs->
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> council at openid.net <mailto:council at openid.net>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council at openid.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council at openid.net><mailto:specs- <mailto:specs->
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> council at openid.net <mailto:council at openid.net>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council at openid.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council at openid.net><mailto:specs- <mailto:specs->
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> council at openid.net <mailto:council at openid.net>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council at openid.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council at openid.net><mailto:specs- <mailto:specs->
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> council at openid.net <mailto:council at openid.net>>>>;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Josh Hoyt; Tatsuki Sakushima; John Bradley;
>>>>>>>>> hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>>>;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Robert Ott; Michael
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Graves; Henrik
>>>>>>>>> Biering; Drummond Reed; Nat Sakimura; 山口徹
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the TX
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> working group
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Nat,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I read Josh's email as agreeing with Mike's
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> statement
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The OpenID Specifications Council recommends that
>>>>>>>>> members reject
>>>>>>>>> this proposal to create a working group
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> because the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> charter is
>>>>>>>>> excessively broad, it seems to propose the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> creation
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of new
>>>>>>>>> mechanisms that unnecessarily create new ways
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to do
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> accomplish
>>>>>>>>> existing tasks, such as digital signatures, and it
>>>>>>>>> the proposal is
>>>>>>>>> not sufficiently clear on whether it builds upon
>>>>>>>>> existing mechanisms
>>>>>>>>> such as AX 1.0 in a compatible manner, or
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> whether it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> requires
>>>>>>>>> breaking changes to these underlying protocols.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> While you have clarified that you don't intend to
>>>>>>>>> create a new XML
>>>>>>>>> signature mechanism, OAuth describes a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> mechanism to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> use public keys
>>>>>>>>> to sign these sorts of parameters. Signatures
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> aside,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> as Mike said
>>>>>>>>> other aspects of the charter seem quite broad
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> is unclear how
>>>>>>>>> it will build upon AX 1.0 and other underlying
>>>>>>>>> existing OpenID
>>>>>>>>> technologies.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Given the draft charter at
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups%3AContract_Exchange_1:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1) The purpose of producing a series of extensions
>>>>>>>>> seems too broad. OpenID was born on the idea of
>>>>>>>>> doing one simple thing and we've seen
>>>>>>>>> success with OpenID and related technologies when
>>>>>>>>> they are made up
>>>>>>>>> of small pieces loosely joined. OpenID
>>>>>>>>> Authentication 2.0 broke
>>>>>>>>> this rule in some areas and we're now seeing the
>>>>>>>>> repercussions of
>>>>>>>>> doing so.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2) In what jurisdictions are these contracts
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> legally
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> binding? Is
>>>>>>>>> "arbitrary parties to create and exchange a
>>>>>>>>> mutually-digitally-signed legally binding
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 'contract'"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a justifiable
>>>>>>>>> statement or should it be toned down? It
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> should also
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> be kept in
>>>>>>>>> mind that since OpenID's creation it has been very
>>>>>>>>> clear that OpenID
>>>>>>>>> does not provide trust, but rather trust can
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> be built
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> on top of
>>>>>>>>> identity. I'm not saying that OpenID should never
>>>>>>>>> deal with trust,
>>>>>>>>> just trying to understand if this Working Group
>>>>>>>>> intends to change
>>>>>>>>> how OpenID currently does not create this form of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> trust.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...
>>
>> [Message clipped]
>
>
>
--
Nat Sakimura (=nat)
http://www.sakimura.org/en/
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