[OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group
David Recordon
recordond at gmail.com
Thu Jan 22 06:06:37 UTC 2009
Next steps are moving forward with the CX proposal. It would be great if
you could please vote on both it and the OpenID/OAuth Hybrid proposals which
are on the table.
--David
On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Allen Tom <atom at yahoo-inc.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Please accept my apologies for missing the call today, I'm quite a bit
> behind on my mail, and just saw the meeting invitation just now. Are there
> any meeting minutes or action items?
>
> Thanks
> Allen
>
>
>
> David Recordon wrote:
>
> Thanks, talk to you at 3pm Pacific.
>
> --David
>
> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Tatsuki Sakushima <tatsuki at nri.com>wrote:
>
>> Members of the Spec Council and the CX WG Proposers,
>>
>> Since two members(David and Allen) from the Spec Council are available on
>> 21st tomorrow,
>> I'd like to schedule a telcon on 3pm 1/21. (Some of us have an ORMS
>> telecon from 2pm, I'll make it start 5 mins passed 3pm.)
>>
>>
>> Here is the access information for the conference bridge tomorrow:
>>
>> Date: Thursday, 15 January 2009 USA
>> Time: 3:05PM - 4:05AM(PST)
>> (This is PST. Please see the time at your time zone at Doodle.)
>> TO ACCESS THE AUDIO CONFERENCE:
>> Dial In Number: 1 (605) 475-4333
>> Access Code: 199834
>>
>> For the proposers,
>>
>> Even though you don't update your schedule yet, please feel free to join
>> the meeting.
>>
>> Best,
>> Tatsuki
>>
>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>>
>>
>> (1/20/09 2:14 PM), Tatsuki Sakushima wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you, David.
>>>
>>> To the proposers,
>>>
>>> Please update your availability on 3pm of 21st as well.
>>>
>>> 1. Go to http://www.doodle.com/rat2s87iyeqxd79z
>>> 2. Click "Edit an entry"
>>> 3. Click a little icon right next to your name
>>> 4. Apply the change
>>>
>>> I'd like to close this poll by the 9pm on PST today and send the
>>> conference bridge information to participants.
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>>> TEL:(650)638-7258
>>> SkypeIn:(650)209-4811
>>>
>>> (1/20/09 12:59 PM), David Recordon wrote:
>>>
>>>> 3pm Pacific works for me on the 21st. I'll update my Doodle response.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Sent from my iPhone Classic.
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 20, 2009, at 9:59 AM, Tatsuki Sakushima <tatsuki at nri.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I temporarily add 3:00pm of 21st. When Mike or David suggest the time
>>>>> good for them,
>>>>> I'll update it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tatsuki
>>>>>
>>>>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>>>>>
>>>>> (1/19/09 5:30 PM), Nat Sakimura wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What time woud be good then?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =nat
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 5:45 AM, Mike Jones <
>>>>>> Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
>>>>>> <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I could do some other times that day but not that hour.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: specs-council-bounces at openid.net
>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council-bounces at openid.net>
>>>>>> [mailto:specs-council-bounces at openid.net
>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council-bounces at openid.net>] On Behalf Of Drummond
>>>>>> Reed
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 8:43 PM
>>>>>> To: 'Nat Sakimura'; 'David Recordon'; 'Tatsuki Sakushima'
>>>>>> Cc: specs-council at openid.net <mailto:specs-council at openid.net>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right now I could do the 21st at 15:00PST.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =Drummond
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: specs-council-bounces at openid.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council-bounces at openid.net> [mailto:specs-council-
>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council->
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> bounces at openid.net <mailto:bounces at openid.net>] On Behalf Of Nat
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sakimura
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 6:45 PM
>>>>>>> To: David Recordon; Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>> Cc: specs-council at openid.net <mailto:specs-council at openid.net>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What about other people for 21st 15:00 PST?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tatsuki, could you add that date to the doodle poll as well?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =nat
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> From: "David Recordon" <recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 3:51 PM
>>>>>>> To: "Tatsuki Sakushima" <tatsuki at nri.com <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>
>>>>>>> Cc: <specs-council at openid.net <mailto:specs-council at openid.net>>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks, though neither of those times work for me unfortunately
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> but any
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> time the 21st should.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <tatsuki at nri.com <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As many of you suggested using Doodle.com, I created the event
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> there:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.doodle.com/rat2s87iyeqxd79z
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please update your schedule there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tatsuki
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (1/15/09 5:04 PM), Tatsuki Sakushima wrote:
>>>>>>>> Dear the Specifications Council members (especially David and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mike) and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the proposers of the CX WG,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Upon the request by David, I re-schedule this teleconference to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the next
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> week.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please reply this message and specify the option that you
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> prefer. Based
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> on replies from all participants who intend to join, I'll set up a
>>>>>>>> conference bridge and email them the information.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I suggest the following schedules as candidate dates:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1) 4:00pm on 1/22(PST)
>>>>>>>> 12:00am on 1/22(GMT)
>>>>>>>> 9:00am on 1/23(JST)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2) 2:00pm on 1/23(PST)
>>>>>>>> 10:00pm on 1/23(GMT)
>>>>>>>> 7:00am on 1/24(JST)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the OIDFSC mailing list, David already stated and explained
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> concerns
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> about the previous charter submitted by Nat:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-December/000045.html
>>>>>>>> http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-December/000046.html
>>>>>>>> http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-December/000027.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The group of the proposers(Nat, Drummond, John, Henrik and Tatsuki)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> gathered today to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> discuss how to change the charter that does hopefully eliminate the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> concerns mentioned in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the messages from Mike and David. The updated version is on the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wiki page:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups%3AContract_Exchange_1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please take another look at it before the teleconference and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> provide us
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> feedbacks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> so that we can discuss about the new charter.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you have any comments or concerns about scheduling and so forth,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> please let me know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>> Tatsuki
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (1/15/09 2:50 PM), David Recordon wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Tatsuki,
>>>>>>>> I'm really sorry but it turns out that I must have mixed up my
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> days when
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> looking at the times yesterday. I have a two hour meeting at 3pm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is it possible to try to plan this call more than a day in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> advance for
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> next week?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry,
>>>>>>>> --David
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 12:09 AM, Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <tatsuki at nri.com <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> David and Mike Jones from the spec council responded for this
>>>>>>>> invitation.
>>>>>>>> David can join a conference call on the 1) slot, so I'd like
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> schedule
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a call on the date below:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, 15 January 2009 USA
>>>>>>>> Time: 3:05PM - 4:05AM(PST)
>>>>>>>> 11:05PM on 1/15(GMT)
>>>>>>>> 8:05PM on 1/16(JST)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> TO ACCESS THE AUDIO CONFERENCE:
>>>>>>>> Dial In Number: 1 (605) 475-4333
>>>>>>>> Access Code: 199834
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From the proposers side, I confirmed that Nat, Drummond, John,
>>>>>>>> and I can join. Unfortunately Mike Graves and Henrik cannot join
>>>>>>>> because both of them are not available on the 1) slot but on
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the 2).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>> Tatsuki
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (1/14/09 1:59 PM), Tatsuki Sakushima wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I suggest the following schedules as candidate dates:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1) 2:00pm on 1/15(PST)
>>>>>>>>> 10:00pm on 1/15(GMT)
>>>>>>>>> 7:00am on 1/16(JST)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thursday, there is a XRI TC telecon that many of us join.
>>>>>>>> Therefore, I suggested a hour moved back on 1). The new
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> schedule
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is below:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1) 3:00pm on 1/15(PST)
>>>>>>>> 11:00pm on 1/15(GMT)
>>>>>>>> 8:00am on 1/16(JST)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry for members in Europe. I might be hard to join it
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> at this
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hour.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>> Tatsuki
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>>>>>>>> TEL:(650)638-7258
>>>>>>>> SkypeIn:(650)209-4811
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (1/14/09 1:45 PM), Tatsuki Sakushima wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (The options of the schedules have the same number. I
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> send the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> collection and please discard the previous one.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear the Specifications Council members (especially David
>>>>>>>> and Mike) and
>>>>>>>> the proposers of the CX WG,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Upon the request of scheduling a call by Nat, I'd like to
>>>>>>>> invite all the
>>>>>>>> members of the spec council and the CX WG proposers to a
>>>>>>>> teleconference
>>>>>>>> to discuss how to solve the charter clarification and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> scope
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> concerns
>>>>>>>> pointed out by the spec council.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I suggest the following schedules as candidate dates:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1) 2:00pm on 1/15(PST)
>>>>>>>> 10:00pm on 1/15(GMT)
>>>>>>>> 7:00am on 1/16(JST)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2) 2:00pm on 1/16(PST)
>>>>>>>> 10:00pm on 1/16(GMT)
>>>>>>>> 7:00am on 1/17(JST)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please reply this message and specify the option that you
>>>>>>>> prefer. Based
>>>>>>>> on replies from all participants who intend to join, I'll
>>>>>>>> set up a
>>>>>>>> conference bridge and email them the information.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the OIDFSC mailing list, David already stated and
>>>>>>>> explained concerns
>>>>>>>> about the previous charter submitted by Nat:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> December/000045.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> December/000046.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> December/000027.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think that the goal of this telecon is:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a) For the proposers to clarify points of concerns
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> raised by
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the council
>>>>>>>> and explain intentions of the WG.
>>>>>>>> b) For the spec council to provide concrete
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> suggestions to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> make the
>>>>>>>> charter comfortable and reasonable to the spec
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> council and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the community .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you have any comments or concerns on this message,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> please
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> let me know.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>> Tatsuki
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (1/13/09 12:15 AM), Nat Sakimura wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tatsuki,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Could you kindly set-up a followup call, please?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the mean time though, I would like to ask spec
>>>>>>>> council members for the response towards the answers
>>>>>>>> given by the proposers to your concerns. Any concrete
>>>>>>>> suggestion to make it acceptable to the spec
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> council is
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> also welcome. It's a wiki, after all.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As to the "community support", it would probably
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> depend
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> on what "community".
>>>>>>>> The proposers are probably talking of higher value
>>>>>>>> transaction users, and if we do it in timely
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> manner, I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> am pretty confident that it will have some
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> traction, but
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it needs to happen fast. If we take too much
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> time, the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> opportunity will go away from OpenID.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> =nat
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2009/1/1 Drummond Reed
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net><mailto:
>>>>>> Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net><mailto:
>>>>>> Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net><mailto:
>>>>>> Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net><mailto:
>>>>>> Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> First, I agree with Henrik's comments (see his
>>>>>>>> separate email).
>>>>>>>> Second, to say, "I do not believe that it
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> currently
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> has sufficient
>>>>>>>> support within the OpenID community to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> succeed", did
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> you see the
>>>>>>>> list of proposers for this workgroup?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * Drummond Reed,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com><mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com><mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com><mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com><mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com>>>>,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cordance/Parity/OASIS (U.S.A)
>>>>>>>> * Henrik Biering,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hb at netamia.com <mailto:hb at netamia.com><mailto:hb at netamia.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com><mailto:hb at netamia.com <mailto:
>>>>>> hb at netamia.com>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com><mailto:hb at netamia.com <mailto:
>>>>>> hb at netamia.com>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com><mailto:hb at netamia.com
>>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com>>>>,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Netamia (Denmark)
>>>>>>>> * Hideki Nara, hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic- <mailto:hdknr at ic->
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> tact.co.jp <http://tact.co.jp>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>>>,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tact Communications (Japan)
>>>>>>>> * John Bradeley,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> jbradley at mac.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com><mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com><mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com><mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com><mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com>>>>,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OASIS IDTrust Member Section (Canada)
>>>>>>>> * Mike Graves,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com><mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com><mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com><mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com><mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com>>>>,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> JanRain, Inc. (U.S.A.)
>>>>>>>> * Nat Sakimura, n-sakimura at nri.co.jp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp><mailto:n- <mailto:n->
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> sakimura at nri.co.jp <mailto:sakimura at nri.co.jp>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp><mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp
>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp><mailto:n- <mailto:n->
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> sakimura at nri.co.jp <mailto:sakimura at nri.co.jp>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp><mailto:n- <mailto:n->
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> sakimura at nri.co.jp <mailto:sakimura at nri.co.jp>>>>, Nomura
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Research Institute,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ltd.(Japan)
>>>>>>>> * Robert Ott,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com><mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com><mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com><mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com><mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com>>>>, Clavid
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Switzerland)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * Tatsuki Sakushima,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> tatsuki at nri.com <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>>>,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NRI America, Inc. (U.S.A.)
>>>>>>>> * Toru Yamaguchi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> trymch at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com><mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com><mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com><mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com><mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com>>>>,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cybozu Labs (Japan)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In short, my first reaction to reading your
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> email was
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to think,
>>>>>>>> "Wow, here it is, the first example of OpenID
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> turning
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> into W3C and
>>>>>>>> IETF and every other standards organization that
>>>>>>>> turns into a small
>>>>>>>> group of insiders trying to control innovation!"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of course I think you, more than almost
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> anyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> can appreciate the
>>>>>>>> irony of that thought - I believe it was to avoid
>>>>>>>> that very
>>>>>>>> situation that the OIDF was created, no?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So if we DON'T want that to happen, I
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> think what
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> we need to do ASAP
>>>>>>>> is turn this into a constructive dialog
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> between the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> proposers of
>>>>>>>> this Working Group and the Specs Council about how
>>>>>>>> the charter might
>>>>>>>> be amended to addess some of your concerns.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (I'm not
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> commenting yet
>>>>>>>> on your specific concerns, other than to say
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> that I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> agree with some
>>>>>>>> and not with others.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I suspect email is going to be much too
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> slow for
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> such a dialog, so I
>>>>>>>> would suggest that Nat and Tatksuki set up a
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> telecon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> between the
>>>>>>>> Working Group proposers and the Specs Council
>>>>>>>> members. I would also
>>>>>>>> suggest that before such a telecon, the Specs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Council
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> get together
>>>>>>>> and collectively list their issues with the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Charter
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> on the Working
>>>>>>>> Group Charter page. I have added a section for
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> purpose:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups%3AContract_Exchange_1#cSpecification
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> CouncilIssues
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It may be that all the Specs Council members
>>>>>>>> agree with your four
>>>>>>>> points below, in which case you can just wholesale
>>>>>>>> copy them into
>>>>>>>> the wiki page. However it is very important
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Specs Council
>>>>>>>> come to it's own consensus about the issues it has
>>>>>>>> with the charter,
>>>>>>>> because without that, the WG proposers have no
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of addressing
>>>>>>>> these issues, either with counterarguments or with
>>>>>>>> potential amendments.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Listing the issues there also enables us
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to have
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a more focused
>>>>>>>> discussion than email alone by using comments
>>>>>>>> directly on the wiki page.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> =Drummond
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *From:* David Recordon
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com><mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com><mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com><mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com><mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com>>>>]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:33 AM
>>>>>>>> *To:* Nat Sakimura
>>>>>>>> *Cc:* specs-council at openid.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council at openid.net><mailto:specs- <mailto:specs->
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> council at openid.net <mailto:council at openid.net>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council at openid.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council at openid.net><mailto:specs- <mailto:specs->
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> council at openid.net <mailto:council at openid.net>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council at openid.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council at openid.net><mailto:specs- <mailto:specs->
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> council at openid.net <mailto:council at openid.net>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council at openid.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council at openid.net><mailto:specs- <mailto:specs->
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> council at openid.net <mailto:council at openid.net>>>>;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Josh Hoyt; Tatsuki Sakushima; John Bradley;
>>>>>>>> hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>>>;
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert Ott; Michael
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Graves; Henrik
>>>>>>>> Biering; Drummond Reed; Nat Sakimura; 山口徹
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the TX
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> working group
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Nat,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I read Josh's email as agreeing with Mike's
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> statement
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The OpenID Specifications Council recommends that
>>>>>>>> members reject
>>>>>>>> this proposal to create a working group
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> because the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> charter is
>>>>>>>> excessively broad, it seems to propose the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> creation
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of new
>>>>>>>> mechanisms that unnecessarily create new ways
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to do
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> accomplish
>>>>>>>> existing tasks, such as digital signatures, and it
>>>>>>>> the proposal is
>>>>>>>> not sufficiently clear on whether it builds upon
>>>>>>>> existing mechanisms
>>>>>>>> such as AX 1.0 in a compatible manner, or
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> whether it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> requires
>>>>>>>> breaking changes to these underlying protocols.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While you have clarified that you don't intend to
>>>>>>>> create a new XML
>>>>>>>> signature mechanism, OAuth describes a
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> mechanism to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> use public keys
>>>>>>>> to sign these sorts of parameters. Signatures
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> aside,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> as Mike said
>>>>>>>> other aspects of the charter seem quite broad
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is unclear how
>>>>>>>> it will build upon AX 1.0 and other underlying
>>>>>>>> existing OpenID
>>>>>>>> technologies.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given the draft charter at
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups%3AContract_Exchange_1:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1) The purpose of producing a series of extensions
>>>>>>>> seems too broad. OpenID was born on the idea of
>>>>>>>> doing one simple thing and we've seen
>>>>>>>> success with OpenID and related technologies when
>>>>>>>> they are made up
>>>>>>>> of small pieces loosely joined. OpenID
>>>>>>>> Authentication 2.0 broke
>>>>>>>> this rule in some areas and we're now seeing the
>>>>>>>> repercussions of
>>>>>>>> doing so.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2) In what jurisdictions are these contracts
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> legally
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> binding? Is
>>>>>>>> "arbitrary parties to create and exchange a
>>>>>>>> mutually-digitally-signed legally binding
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 'contract'"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a justifiable
>>>>>>>> statement or should it be toned down? It
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> should also
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> be kept in
>>>>>>>> mind that since OpenID's creation it has been very
>>>>>>>> clear that OpenID
>>>>>>>> does not provide trust, but rather trust can
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> be built
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> on top of
>>>>>>>> identity. I'm not saying that OpenID should never
>>>>>>>> deal with trust,
>>>>>>>> just trying to understand if this Working Group
>>>>>>>> intends to change
>>>>>>>> how OpenID currently does not create this form of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> trust.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...
>
> [Message clipped]
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