[OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group
David Recordon
recordond at gmail.com
Wed Jan 21 16:51:54 UTC 2009
Thanks, talk to you at 3pm Pacific.
--David
On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Tatsuki Sakushima <tatsuki at nri.com> wrote:
> Members of the Spec Council and the CX WG Proposers,
>
> Since two members(David and Allen) from the Spec Council are available on
> 21st tomorrow,
> I'd like to schedule a telcon on 3pm 1/21. (Some of us have an ORMS telecon
> from 2pm, I'll make it start 5 mins passed 3pm.)
>
>
> Here is the access information for the conference bridge tomorrow:
>
> Date: Thursday, 15 January 2009 USA
> Time: 3:05PM - 4:05AM(PST)
> (This is PST. Please see the time at your time zone at Doodle.)
> TO ACCESS THE AUDIO CONFERENCE:
> Dial In Number: 1 (605) 475-4333
> Access Code: 199834
>
> For the proposers,
>
> Even though you don't update your schedule yet, please feel free to join
> the meeting.
>
> Best,
> Tatsuki
>
> Tatsuki Sakushima
> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>
>
> (1/20/09 2:14 PM), Tatsuki Sakushima wrote:
>
>> Thank you, David.
>>
>> To the proposers,
>>
>> Please update your availability on 3pm of 21st as well.
>>
>> 1. Go to http://www.doodle.com/rat2s87iyeqxd79z
>> 2. Click "Edit an entry"
>> 3. Click a little icon right next to your name
>> 4. Apply the change
>>
>> I'd like to close this poll by the 9pm on PST today and send the
>> conference bridge information to participants.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>> TEL:(650)638-7258
>> SkypeIn:(650)209-4811
>>
>> (1/20/09 12:59 PM), David Recordon wrote:
>>
>>> 3pm Pacific works for me on the 21st. I'll update my Doodle response.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Sent from my iPhone Classic.
>>>
>>> On Jan 20, 2009, at 9:59 AM, Tatsuki Sakushima <tatsuki at nri.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I temporarily add 3:00pm of 21st. When Mike or David suggest the time
>>>> good for them,
>>>> I'll update it.
>>>>
>>>> Tatsuki
>>>>
>>>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>>>>
>>>> (1/19/09 5:30 PM), Nat Sakimura wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What time woud be good then?
>>>>>
>>>>> =nat
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 5:45 AM, Mike Jones <
>>>>> Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
>>>>> <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I could do some other times that day but not that hour.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: specs-council-bounces at openid.net
>>>>> <mailto:specs-council-bounces at openid.net>
>>>>> [mailto:specs-council-bounces at openid.net
>>>>> <mailto:specs-council-bounces at openid.net>] On Behalf Of Drummond
>>>>> Reed
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 8:43 PM
>>>>> To: 'Nat Sakimura'; 'David Recordon'; 'Tatsuki Sakushima'
>>>>> Cc: specs-council at openid.net <mailto:specs-council at openid.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group
>>>>>
>>>>> Right now I could do the 21st at 15:00PST.
>>>>>
>>>>> =Drummond
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: specs-council-bounces at openid.net
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:specs-council-bounces at openid.net> [mailto:specs-council-
>>>>> <mailto:specs-council->
>>>>>
>>>>>> bounces at openid.net <mailto:bounces at openid.net>] On Behalf Of Nat
>>>>>>
>>>>> Sakimura
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 6:45 PM
>>>>>> To: David Recordon; Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>> Cc: specs-council at openid.net <mailto:specs-council at openid.net>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What about other people for 21st 15:00 PST?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tatsuki, could you add that date to the doodle poll as well?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =nat
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> From: "David Recordon" <recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 3:51 PM
>>>>>> To: "Tatsuki Sakushima" <tatsuki at nri.com <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>
>>>>>> Cc: <specs-council at openid.net <mailto:specs-council at openid.net>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, though neither of those times work for me unfortunately
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> but any
>>>>>
>>>>>> time the 21st should.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <tatsuki at nri.com <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As many of you suggested using Doodle.com, I created the event
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> there:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.doodle.com/rat2s87iyeqxd79z
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please update your schedule there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tatsuki
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (1/15/09 5:04 PM), Tatsuki Sakushima wrote:
>>>>>>> Dear the Specifications Council members (especially David and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike) and
>>>>>
>>>>>> the proposers of the CX WG,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Upon the request by David, I re-schedule this teleconference to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> the next
>>>>>
>>>>>> week.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please reply this message and specify the option that you
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> prefer. Based
>>>>>
>>>>>> on replies from all participants who intend to join, I'll set up a
>>>>>>> conference bridge and email them the information.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suggest the following schedules as candidate dates:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) 4:00pm on 1/22(PST)
>>>>>>> 12:00am on 1/22(GMT)
>>>>>>> 9:00am on 1/23(JST)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2) 2:00pm on 1/23(PST)
>>>>>>> 10:00pm on 1/23(GMT)
>>>>>>> 7:00am on 1/24(JST)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the OIDFSC mailing list, David already stated and explained
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> concerns
>>>>>
>>>>>> about the previous charter submitted by Nat:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-December/000045.html
>>>>>>> http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-December/000046.html
>>>>>>> http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-December/000027.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The group of the proposers(Nat, Drummond, John, Henrik and Tatsuki)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> gathered today to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> discuss how to change the charter that does hopefully eliminate the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> concerns mentioned in
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the messages from Mike and David. The updated version is on the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> same
>>>>>
>>>>>> wiki page:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups%3AContract_Exchange_1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please take another look at it before the teleconference and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> provide us
>>>>>
>>>>>> feedbacks
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> so that we can discuss about the new charter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you have any comments or concerns about scheduling and so forth,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> please let me know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Tatsuki
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (1/15/09 2:50 PM), David Recordon wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Tatsuki,
>>>>>>> I'm really sorry but it turns out that I must have mixed up my
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> days when
>>>>>
>>>>>> looking at the times yesterday. I have a two hour meeting at 3pm
>>>>>>
>>>>> today.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it possible to try to plan this call more than a day in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> advance for
>>>>>
>>>>>> next week?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry,
>>>>>>> --David
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 12:09 AM, Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <tatsuki at nri.com <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David and Mike Jones from the spec council responded for this
>>>>>>> invitation.
>>>>>>> David can join a conference call on the 1) slot, so I'd like
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> schedule
>>>>>
>>>>>> a call on the date below:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, 15 January 2009 USA
>>>>>>> Time: 3:05PM - 4:05AM(PST)
>>>>>>> 11:05PM on 1/15(GMT)
>>>>>>> 8:05PM on 1/16(JST)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TO ACCESS THE AUDIO CONFERENCE:
>>>>>>> Dial In Number: 1 (605) 475-4333
>>>>>>> Access Code: 199834
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From the proposers side, I confirmed that Nat, Drummond, John,
>>>>>>> and I can join. Unfortunately Mike Graves and Henrik cannot join
>>>>>>> because both of them are not available on the 1) slot but on
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> the 2).
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Tatsuki
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (1/14/09 1:59 PM), Tatsuki Sakushima wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suggest the following schedules as candidate dates:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1) 2:00pm on 1/15(PST)
>>>>>>>> 10:00pm on 1/15(GMT)
>>>>>>>> 7:00am on 1/16(JST)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thursday, there is a XRI TC telecon that many of us join.
>>>>>>> Therefore, I suggested a hour moved back on 1). The new
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> schedule
>>>>>
>>>>>> is below:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) 3:00pm on 1/15(PST)
>>>>>>> 11:00pm on 1/15(GMT)
>>>>>>> 8:00am on 1/16(JST)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry for members in Europe. I might be hard to join it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> at this
>>>>>
>>>>>> hour.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Tatsuki
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>>>>>>> TEL:(650)638-7258
>>>>>>> SkypeIn:(650)209-4811
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (1/14/09 1:45 PM), Tatsuki Sakushima wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (The options of the schedules have the same number. I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> send the
>>>>>
>>>>>> collection and please discard the previous one.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear the Specifications Council members (especially David
>>>>>>> and Mike) and
>>>>>>> the proposers of the CX WG,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Upon the request of scheduling a call by Nat, I'd like to
>>>>>>> invite all the
>>>>>>> members of the spec council and the CX WG proposers to a
>>>>>>> teleconference
>>>>>>> to discuss how to solve the charter clarification and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> scope
>>>>>
>>>>>> concerns
>>>>>>> pointed out by the spec council.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suggest the following schedules as candidate dates:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) 2:00pm on 1/15(PST)
>>>>>>> 10:00pm on 1/15(GMT)
>>>>>>> 7:00am on 1/16(JST)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2) 2:00pm on 1/16(PST)
>>>>>>> 10:00pm on 1/16(GMT)
>>>>>>> 7:00am on 1/17(JST)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please reply this message and specify the option that you
>>>>>>> prefer. Based
>>>>>>> on replies from all participants who intend to join, I'll
>>>>>>> set up a
>>>>>>> conference bridge and email them the information.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the OIDFSC mailing list, David already stated and
>>>>>>> explained concerns
>>>>>>> about the previous charter submitted by Nat:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> December/000045.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> December/000046.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> December/000027.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think that the goal of this telecon is:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a) For the proposers to clarify points of concerns
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> raised by
>>>>>
>>>>>> the council
>>>>>>> and explain intentions of the WG.
>>>>>>> b) For the spec council to provide concrete
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> suggestions to
>>>>>
>>>>>> make the
>>>>>>> charter comfortable and reasonable to the spec
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> council and
>>>>>
>>>>>> the community .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you have any comments or concerns on this message,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> please
>>>>>
>>>>>> let me know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Tatsuki
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tatsuki Sakushima
>>>>>>> NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (1/13/09 12:15 AM), Nat Sakimura wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tatsuki,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Could you kindly set-up a followup call, please?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the mean time though, I would like to ask spec
>>>>>>> council members for the response towards the answers
>>>>>>> given by the proposers to your concerns. Any concrete
>>>>>>> suggestion to make it acceptable to the spec
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> council is
>>>>>
>>>>>> also welcome. It's a wiki, after all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As to the "community support", it would probably
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> depend
>>>>>
>>>>>> on what "community".
>>>>>>> The proposers are probably talking of higher value
>>>>>>> transaction users, and if we do it in timely
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> manner, I
>>>>>
>>>>>> am pretty confident that it will have some
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> traction, but
>>>>>
>>>>>> it needs to happen fast. If we take too much
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> time, the
>>>>>
>>>>>> opportunity will go away from OpenID.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =nat
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2009/1/1 Drummond Reed
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net><mailto:
>>>>> Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net><mailto:
>>>>> Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net><mailto:
>>>>> Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net><mailto:
>>>>> Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>>>>> <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First, I agree with Henrik's comments (see his
>>>>>>> separate email).
>>>>>>> Second, to say, "I do not believe that it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> currently
>>>>>
>>>>>> has sufficient
>>>>>>> support within the OpenID community to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> succeed", did
>>>>>
>>>>>> you see the
>>>>>>> list of proposers for this workgroup?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Drummond Reed,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com><mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com><mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com><mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com><mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>>>>> <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com>>>>,
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cordance/Parity/OASIS (U.S.A)
>>>>>>> * Henrik Biering,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> hb at netamia.com <mailto:hb at netamia.com><mailto:hb at netamia.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com><mailto:hb at netamia.com <mailto:
>>>>> hb at netamia.com>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com><mailto:hb at netamia.com <mailto:hb at netamia.com
>>>>> >>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com><mailto:hb at netamia.com
>>>>> <mailto:hb at netamia.com>>>>,
>>>>>
>>>>>> Netamia (Denmark)
>>>>>>> * Hideki Nara, hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic- <mailto:hdknr at ic->
>>>>>
>>>>>> tact.co.jp <http://tact.co.jp>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>>>,
>>>>>
>>>>>> Tact Communications (Japan)
>>>>>>> * John Bradeley,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> jbradley at mac.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com><mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com><mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com><mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com><mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>>>>> <mailto:jbradley at mac.com>>>>,
>>>>>
>>>>>> OASIS IDTrust Member Section (Canada)
>>>>>>> * Mike Graves,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com><mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com><mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com><mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com><mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>>>>> <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com>>>>,
>>>>>
>>>>>> JanRain, Inc. (U.S.A.)
>>>>>>> * Nat Sakimura, n-sakimura at nri.co.jp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp><mailto:n- <mailto:n->
>>>>>
>>>>>> sakimura at nri.co.jp <mailto:sakimura at nri.co.jp>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp><mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp
>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp><mailto:n- <mailto:n->
>>>>>
>>>>>> sakimura at nri.co.jp <mailto:sakimura at nri.co.jp>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp><mailto:n- <mailto:n->
>>>>>
>>>>>> sakimura at nri.co.jp <mailto:sakimura at nri.co.jp>>>>, Nomura
>>>>>>
>>>>> Research Institute,
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ltd.(Japan)
>>>>>>> * Robert Ott,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com><mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com><mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com><mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com><mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>>>>> <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com>>>>, Clavid
>>>>>
>>>>>> (Switzerland)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Tatsuki Sakushima,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> tatsuki at nri.com <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>>>>> <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>>>,
>>>>>
>>>>>> NRI America, Inc. (U.S.A.)
>>>>>>> * Toru Yamaguchi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> trymch at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com><mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com><mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com><mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com><mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:trymch at gmail.com>>>>,
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cybozu Labs (Japan)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In short, my first reaction to reading your
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> email was
>>>>>
>>>>>> to think,
>>>>>>> "Wow, here it is, the first example of OpenID
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> turning
>>>>>
>>>>>> into W3C and
>>>>>>> IETF and every other standards organization that
>>>>>>> turns into a small
>>>>>>> group of insiders trying to control innovation!"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course I think you, more than almost
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> anyone,
>>>>>
>>>>>> can appreciate the
>>>>>>> irony of that thought - I believe it was to avoid
>>>>>>> that very
>>>>>>> situation that the OIDF was created, no?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So if we DON'T want that to happen, I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> think what
>>>>>
>>>>>> we need to do ASAP
>>>>>>> is turn this into a constructive dialog
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> between the
>>>>>
>>>>>> proposers of
>>>>>>> this Working Group and the Specs Council about how
>>>>>>> the charter might
>>>>>>> be amended to addess some of your concerns.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> (I'm not
>>>>>
>>>>>> commenting yet
>>>>>>> on your specific concerns, other than to say
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> that I
>>>>>
>>>>>> agree with some
>>>>>>> and not with others.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suspect email is going to be much too
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> slow for
>>>>>
>>>>>> such a dialog, so I
>>>>>>> would suggest that Nat and Tatksuki set up a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> telecon
>>>>>
>>>>>> between the
>>>>>>> Working Group proposers and the Specs Council
>>>>>>> members. I would also
>>>>>>> suggest that before such a telecon, the Specs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Council
>>>>>
>>>>>> get together
>>>>>>> and collectively list their issues with the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Charter
>>>>>
>>>>>> on the Working
>>>>>>> Group Charter page. I have added a section for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> this
>>>>>
>>>>>> purpose:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups%3AContract_Exchange_1#cSpecification
>>>>>
>>>>>> CouncilIssues
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It may be that all the Specs Council members
>>>>>>> agree with your four
>>>>>>> points below, in which case you can just wholesale
>>>>>>> copy them into
>>>>>>> the wiki page. However it is very important
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> that the
>>>>>
>>>>>> Specs Council
>>>>>>> come to it's own consensus about the issues it has
>>>>>>> with the charter,
>>>>>>> because without that, the WG proposers have no
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> hope
>>>>>
>>>>>> of addressing
>>>>>>> these issues, either with counterarguments or with
>>>>>>> potential amendments.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Listing the issues there also enables us
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> to have
>>>>>
>>>>>> a more focused
>>>>>>> discussion than email alone by using comments
>>>>>>> directly on the wiki page.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =Drummond
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From:* David Recordon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> [mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com><mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com><mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com><mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com><mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:recordond at gmail.com>>>>]
>>>>>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:33 AM
>>>>>>> *To:* Nat Sakimura
>>>>>>> *Cc:* specs-council at openid.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council at openid.net><mailto:specs- <mailto:specs->
>>>>>
>>>>>> council at openid.net <mailto:council at openid.net>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council at openid.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council at openid.net><mailto:specs- <mailto:specs->
>>>>>
>>>>>> council at openid.net <mailto:council at openid.net>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council at openid.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council at openid.net><mailto:specs- <mailto:specs->
>>>>>
>>>>>> council at openid.net <mailto:council at openid.net>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council at openid.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:specs-council at openid.net><mailto:specs- <mailto:specs->
>>>>>
>>>>>> council at openid.net <mailto:council at openid.net>>>>;
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Josh Hoyt; Tatsuki Sakushima; John Bradley;
>>>>>>> hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>>>>> <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>>>;
>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert Ott; Michael
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Graves; Henrik
>>>>>>> Biering; Drummond Reed; Nat Sakimura; 山口徹
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> the TX
>>>>>
>>>>>> working group
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Nat,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I read Josh's email as agreeing with Mike's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> statement
>>>>>
>>>>>> of:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The OpenID Specifications Council recommends that
>>>>>>> members reject
>>>>>>> this proposal to create a working group
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> because the
>>>>>
>>>>>> charter is
>>>>>>> excessively broad, it seems to propose the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> creation
>>>>>
>>>>>> of new
>>>>>>> mechanisms that unnecessarily create new ways
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> to do
>>>>>
>>>>>> accomplish
>>>>>>> existing tasks, such as digital signatures, and it
>>>>>>> the proposal is
>>>>>>> not sufficiently clear on whether it builds upon
>>>>>>> existing mechanisms
>>>>>>> such as AX 1.0 in a compatible manner, or
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> whether it
>>>>>
>>>>>> requires
>>>>>>> breaking changes to these underlying protocols.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While you have clarified that you don't intend to
>>>>>>> create a new XML
>>>>>>> signature mechanism, OAuth describes a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> mechanism to
>>>>>
>>>>>> use public keys
>>>>>>> to sign these sorts of parameters. Signatures
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> aside,
>>>>>
>>>>>> as Mike said
>>>>>>> other aspects of the charter seem quite broad
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> and it
>>>>>
>>>>>> is unclear how
>>>>>>> it will build upon AX 1.0 and other underlying
>>>>>>> existing OpenID
>>>>>>> technologies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given the draft charter at
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups%3AContract_Exchange_1:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) The purpose of producing a series of extensions
>>>>>>> seems too broad. OpenID was born on the idea of
>>>>>>> doing one simple thing and we've seen
>>>>>>> success with OpenID and related technologies when
>>>>>>> they are made up
>>>>>>> of small pieces loosely joined. OpenID
>>>>>>> Authentication 2.0 broke
>>>>>>> this rule in some areas and we're now seeing the
>>>>>>> repercussions of
>>>>>>> doing so.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2) In what jurisdictions are these contracts
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> legally
>>>>>
>>>>>> binding? Is
>>>>>>> "arbitrary parties to create and exchange a
>>>>>>> mutually-digitally-signed legally binding
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> 'contract'"
>>>>>
>>>>>> a justifiable
>>>>>>> statement or should it be toned down? It
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> should also
>>>>>
>>>>>> be kept in
>>>>>>> mind that since OpenID's creation it has been very
>>>>>>> clear that OpenID
>>>>>>> does not provide trust, but rather trust can
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> be built
>>>>>
>>>>>> on top of
>>>>>>> identity. I'm not saying that OpenID should never
>>>>>>> deal with trust,
>>>>>>> just trying to understand if this Working Group
>>>>>>> intends to change
>>>>>>> how OpenID currently does not create this form of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> trust.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3) The purpose says that the Working Group
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> intends to
>>>>>
>>>>>> possibly
>>>>>>> extend AX and create a series of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> specifications. It
>>>>>
>>>>>> does not seem
>>>>>>> prudent to give a Working Group the ability to
>>>>>>> arbitrarily extend an
>>>>>>> existing extension or create an unlimited
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> number of
>>>>>
>>>>>> specifications.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 4) The Scope section is still not clear as to what
>>>>>>> the Working Group
>>>>>>> will actually be producing. I would prefer to see
>>>>>>> the section
>>>>>>> rewritten, maybe mimicking the structure currently
>>>>>>> being considered
>>>>>>> for the specification.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As to if you wish to force this proposal
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> forward, I
>>>>>
>>>>>> do not believe
>>>>>>> that it currently has sufficient support
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> within the
>>>>>
>>>>>> OpenID community
>>>>>>> to succeed and that its broad scope
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> contravenes the
>>>>>
>>>>>> community's
>>>>>>> purpose. This is why I'm really hoping that the
>>>>>>> proposal can be
>>>>>>> refined to something which will be successful
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> that a
>>>>>
>>>>>> broad community
>>>>>>> can get behind!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --David
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Nat Sakimura
>>>>>>> <sakimura at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com><mailto:sakimura at gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com><mailto:sakimura at gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com><mailto:sakimura at gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com><mailto:sakimura at gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Josh,
>>>>>>> To which statement did you agree?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There has been a several things that has been
>>>>>>> pointed out, but I
>>>>>>> think I have answered to them.
>>>>>>> For example, for XML Sig, I have stated
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> that this
>>>>>
>>>>>> spec is not for
>>>>>>> XML, etc.
>>>>>>> For modularization, yes, that is a possibility
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> but a
>>>>>
>>>>>> scope needs to
>>>>>>> be able to cover a field that it requires,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> even if it
>>>>>
>>>>>> ends up not
>>>>>>> covering that field.
>>>>>>> It is impossible to widen the scope though
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> narrowing
>>>>>
>>>>>> it down at a
>>>>>>> later date is easy.
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, I have not heard back any
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> concrete
>>>>>
>>>>>> response
>>>>>>> for amendments. It would be more constructive
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> to have
>>>>>
>>>>>> those.
>>>>>>> Also, if you are giving advise to the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> membership
>>>>>
>>>>>> an recommendation
>>>>>>> for not approving it, you need to state the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> reasons
>>>>>
>>>>>> concretely.
>>>>>>> It needs to be one of
>>>>>>> (a) an incomplete Proposal (i.e.,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> failure to
>>>>>
>>>>>> comply with §4.1);
>>>>>>> (b) a determination that the proposal
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> contravenes
>>>>>
>>>>>> the OpenID
>>>>>>> community's purpose;
>>>>>>> (c) a determination that the proposed WG
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> does not
>>>>>
>>>>>> have sufficient
>>>>>>> support to succeed
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> or to deliver proposed deliverables
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> within
>>>>>
>>>>>> projected
>>>>>>> completion dates; or
>>>>>>> (d) a determination that the proposal is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> likely
>>>>>
>>>>>> to cause legal
>>>>>>> liability for the OIDF or others.
>>>>>>> and should state why the proposal falls
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> into one
>>>>>
>>>>>> of the criteria
>>>>>>> concretely and accountably.
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> =nat
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 7:58 AM, Josh Hoyt
>>>>>>> <josh at janrain.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:josh at janrain.com><mailto:josh at janrain.com
>>>>> <mailto:josh at janrain.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:josh at janrain.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:josh at janrain.com><mailto:josh at janrain.com
>>>>> <mailto:josh at janrain.com>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:josh at janrain.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:josh at janrain.com><mailto:josh at janrain.com
>>>>> <mailto:josh at janrain.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:josh at janrain.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:josh at janrain.com><mailto:josh at janrain.com
>>>>> <mailto:josh at janrain.com>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Mike Jones
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com><mailto:
>>>>> Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
>>>>> <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com><mailto:
>>>>> Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
>>>>> <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com><mailto:
>>>>> Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
>>>>> <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com><mailto:
>>>>> Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
>>>>> <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I realize it was Christmas week but it's been a
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> week and we've
>>>>>>> heard nothing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> from any of the other specs council members on
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this proposal (or
>>>>>>> the other
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> one as well).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with the statement that you made about
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> this
>>>>>
>>>>>> proposal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Josh
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- Nat Sakimura (=nat)
>>>>>>> http://www.sakimura.org/en/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- Nat Sakimura
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> (=nat)
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.sakimura.org/en/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nat Sakimura (=nat)
>>>>> http://www.sakimura.org/en/
>>>>>
>>>> d nothing
>>>>
>>>>> from any of the other specs council members on
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this proposal (or
>>>>>>> the other
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> one as well).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with the statement that you made about
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> this
>>>>>
>>>>>> proposal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Josh
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- Nat Sakimura (=nat)
>>>>>>> http://www.sakimura.org/en/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- Nat Sakimura
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> (=nat)
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.sakimura.org/en/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nat Sakimura (=nat)
>>>>> http://www.sakimura.org/en/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
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