[OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group

Tatsuki Sakushima tatsuki at nri.com
Tue Jan 20 17:59:44 UTC 2009


I temporarily add 3:00pm of 21st. When Mike or David suggest the time good for them,
I'll update it.

Tatsuki

Tatsuki Sakushima
NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.

(1/19/09 5:30 PM), Nat Sakimura wrote:
> What time woud be good then?
> 
> =nat
> 
> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 5:45 AM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones at microsoft.com 
> <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>> wrote:
> 
>     I could do some other times that day but not that hour.
> 
>                                    -- Mike
> 
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: specs-council-bounces at openid.net
>     <mailto:specs-council-bounces at openid.net>
>     [mailto:specs-council-bounces at openid.net
>     <mailto:specs-council-bounces at openid.net>] On Behalf Of Drummond Reed
>     Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 8:43 PM
>     To: 'Nat Sakimura'; 'David Recordon'; 'Tatsuki Sakushima'
>     Cc: specs-council at openid.net <mailto:specs-council at openid.net>
>     Subject: Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group
> 
>     Right now I could do the 21st at 15:00PST.
> 
>     =Drummond
> 
>      > -----Original Message-----
>      > From: specs-council-bounces at openid.net
>     <mailto:specs-council-bounces at openid.net> [mailto:specs-council-
>     <mailto:specs-council->
>      > bounces at openid.net <mailto:bounces at openid.net>] On Behalf Of Nat
>     Sakimura
>      > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 6:45 PM
>      > To: David Recordon; Tatsuki Sakushima
>      > Cc: specs-council at openid.net <mailto:specs-council at openid.net>
>      > Subject: Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group
>      >
>      > What about other people for 21st 15:00 PST?
>      >
>      > Tatsuki, could you add that date to the doodle poll as well?
>      >
>      > =nat
>      >
>      > --------------------------------------------------
>      > From: "David Recordon" <recordond at gmail.com
>     <mailto:recordond at gmail.com>>
>      > Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 3:51 PM
>      > To: "Tatsuki Sakushima" <tatsuki at nri.com <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>
>      > Cc: <specs-council at openid.net <mailto:specs-council at openid.net>>
>      > Subject: Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group
>      >
>      > > Thanks, though neither of those times work for me unfortunately
>     but any
>      > time the 21st should.
>      > >
>      > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Tatsuki Sakushima
>      > <tatsuki at nri.com <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>     <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>> wrote:
>      > > Hi all,
>      > >
>      > > As many of you suggested using Doodle.com, I created the event
>     there:
>      > >
>      > > http://www.doodle.com/rat2s87iyeqxd79z
>      > >
>      > > Please update your schedule there.
>      > >
>      > > Thank you,
>      > >
>      > > Tatsuki
>      > >
>      > > Tatsuki Sakushima
>      > > NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>      > >
>      > > (1/15/09 5:04 PM), Tatsuki Sakushima wrote:
>      > > Dear the Specifications Council members (especially David and
>     Mike) and
>      > > the proposers of the CX WG,
>      > >
>      > > Upon the request by David, I re-schedule this teleconference to
>     the next
>      > week.
>      > > Please reply this message and specify the option that you
>     prefer. Based
>      > > on replies from all participants who intend to join, I'll set up a
>      > > conference bridge and email them the information.
>      > >
>      > > I suggest the following schedules as candidate dates:
>      > >
>      > > 1) 4:00pm on 1/22(PST)
>      > > 12:00am on 1/22(GMT)
>      > > 9:00am on 1/23(JST)
>      > >
>      > > 2) 2:00pm on 1/23(PST)
>      > > 10:00pm on 1/23(GMT)
>      > > 7:00am on 1/24(JST)
>      > >
>      > > In the OIDFSC mailing list, David already stated and explained
>     concerns
>      > > about the previous charter submitted by Nat:
>      > >
>      > > http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-December/000045.html
>      > > http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-December/000046.html
>      > > http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-December/000027.html
>      > >
>      > > The group of the proposers(Nat, Drummond, John, Henrik and Tatsuki)
>      > gathered today to
>      > > discuss how to change the charter that does hopefully eliminate the
>      > concerns mentioned in
>      > > the messages from Mike and David. The updated version is on the
>     same
>      > wiki page:
>      > >
>      > > http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups%3AContract_Exchange_1
>      > >
>      > > Please take another look at it before the teleconference and
>     provide us
>      > feedbacks
>      > > so that we can discuss about the new charter.
>      > >
>      > > If you have any comments or concerns about scheduling and so forth,
>      > please let me know.
>      > >
>      > > Best,
>      > > Tatsuki
>      > >
>      > > Tatsuki Sakushima
>      > > NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>      > >
>      > > (1/15/09 2:50 PM), David Recordon wrote:
>      > > Hi Tatsuki,
>      > > I'm really sorry but it turns out that I must have mixed up my
>     days when
>      > looking at the times yesterday.  I have a two hour meeting at 3pm
>     today.
>      > >
>      > > Is it possible to try to plan this call more than a day in
>     advance for
>      > next week?
>      > >
>      > > Sorry,
>      > > --David
>      > >
>      > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 12:09 AM, Tatsuki Sakushima
>      > <tatsuki at nri.com <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>     <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>
>      > <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>     <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>     <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>>> wrote:
>      > >
>      > >   Hello,
>      > >
>      > >   David and Mike Jones from the spec council responded for this
>      > >   invitation.
>      > >   David can join a conference call on the 1) slot, so I'd like
>     schedule
>      > >   a call on the date below:
>      > >
>      > >   Date:  Thursday, 15 January 2009 USA
>      > >   Time:  3:05PM - 4:05AM(PST)
>      > >        11:05PM on 1/15(GMT)
>      > >         8:05PM on 1/16(JST)
>      > >
>      > >   TO ACCESS THE AUDIO CONFERENCE:
>      > >      Dial In Number: 1 (605) 475-4333
>      > >      Access Code: 199834
>      > >
>      > >    From the proposers side, I confirmed that Nat, Drummond, John,
>      > >   and I can join. Unfortunately Mike Graves and Henrik cannot join
>      > >   because both of them are not available on the 1) slot but on
>     the 2).
>      > >
>      > >
>      > >   Best,
>      > >   Tatsuki
>      > >
>      > >   Tatsuki Sakushima
>      > >   NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>      > >
>      > >
>      > >   (1/14/09 1:59 PM), Tatsuki Sakushima wrote:
>      > >
>      > >       Dear all,
>      > >
>      > >        > I suggest the following schedules as candidate dates:
>      > >        >
>      > >        > 1) 2:00pm on 1/15(PST)
>      > >        >  10:00pm on 1/15(GMT)
>      > >        >  7:00am on 1/16(JST)
>      > >
>      > >       On Thursday, there is a XRI TC telecon that many of us join.
>      > >       Therefore, I suggested a hour moved back on 1). The new
>     schedule
>      > >       is below:
>      > >
>      > >       1) 3:00pm on 1/15(PST)
>      > >        11:00pm on 1/15(GMT)
>      > >        8:00am on 1/16(JST)
>      > >
>      > >       Sorry for members in Europe. I might be hard to join it
>     at this
>      > >       hour.
>      > >
>      > >       Best,
>      > >       Tatsuki
>      > >
>      > >       Tatsuki Sakushima
>      > >       NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>      > >       TEL:(650)638-7258
>      > >       SkypeIn:(650)209-4811
>      > >
>      > >       (1/14/09 1:45 PM), Tatsuki Sakushima wrote:
>      > >
>      > >           (The options of the schedules have the same number. I
>     send the
>      > >           collection and please discard the previous one.)
>      > >
>      > >           Dear the Specifications Council members (especially David
>      > >           and Mike) and
>      > >           the proposers of the CX WG,
>      > >
>      > >           Upon the request of scheduling a call by Nat, I'd like to
>      > >           invite all the
>      > >           members of the spec council and the CX WG proposers to a
>      > >           teleconference
>      > >           to discuss how to solve the charter clarification and
>     scope
>      > >           concerns
>      > >           pointed out by the spec council.
>      > >
>      > >           I suggest the following schedules as candidate dates:
>      > >
>      > >           1) 2:00pm on 1/15(PST)
>      > >            10:00pm on 1/15(GMT)
>      > >            7:00am on 1/16(JST)
>      > >
>      > >           2) 2:00pm on 1/16(PST)
>      > >            10:00pm on 1/16(GMT)
>      > >            7:00am on 1/17(JST)
>      > >
>      > >           Please reply this message and specify the option that you
>      > >           prefer. Based
>      > >           on replies from all participants who intend to join, I'll
>      > >           set up a
>      > >           conference bridge and email them the information.
>      > >
>      > >           In the OIDFSC mailing list, David already stated and
>      > >           explained concerns
>      > >           about the previous charter submitted by Nat:
>      > >
>      > >           http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-
>      > December/000045.html
>      > >           http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-
>      > December/000046.html
>      > >           http://openid.net/pipermail/specs-council/2008-
>      > December/000027.html
>      > >
>      > >           I think that the goal of this telecon is:
>      > >
>      > >           a) For the proposers to clarify points of concerns
>     raised by
>      > >           the council
>      > >           and explain intentions of the WG.
>      > >           b) For the spec council to provide concrete
>     suggestions to
>      > >           make the
>      > >           charter comfortable and reasonable to the spec
>     council and
>      > >           the community .
>      > >
>      > >           If you have any comments or concerns on this message,
>     please
>      > >           let me know.
>      > >
>      > >           Best,
>      > >           Tatsuki
>      > >
>      > >           Tatsuki Sakushima
>      > >           NRI Pacific - Nomura Research Institute America, Inc.
>      > >
>      > >           (1/13/09 12:15 AM), Nat Sakimura wrote:
>      > >
>      > >               Tatsuki,
>      > >
>      > >               Could you kindly set-up a followup call, please?
>      > >
>      > >               In the mean time though, I would like to ask spec
>      > >               council members for the response towards the answers
>      > >               given by the proposers to your concerns. Any concrete
>      > >               suggestion to make it acceptable to the spec
>     council is
>      > >               also welcome. It's a wiki, after all.
>      > >
>      > >               As to the "community support", it would probably
>     depend
>      > >               on what "community".
>      > >               The proposers are probably talking of higher value
>      > >               transaction users, and if we do it in timely
>     manner, I
>      > >               am pretty confident that it will have some
>     traction, but
>      > >               it needs to happen fast. If we take too much
>     time, the
>      > >               opportunity will go away from OpenID.
>      > >
>      > >               =nat
>      > >
>      > >               2009/1/1 Drummond Reed
>      > <Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>     <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net><mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>     <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net>>
>      > >
>      > <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>     <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net><mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>     <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net>>>
>      > >
>      > <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>     <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net><mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>     <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net>>
>      > >
>      > <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>     <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net><mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net
>     <mailto:Drummond.Reed at parityinc.net>>>>>
>      > >
>      > >                  David,
>      > >
>      > >                      First, I agree with Henrik's comments (see his
>      > >               separate email).
>      > >                  Second, to say, "I do not believe that it
>     currently
>      > >               has sufficient
>      > >                  support within the OpenID community to
>     succeed", did
>      > >               you see the
>      > >                  list of proposers for this workgroup?
>      > >
>      > >                      * Drummond Reed,
>      > drummond.reed at parity.com
>     <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com><mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>     <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com>>
>      > >
>      > <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>     <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com><mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>     <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com>>>
>      > >
>      > <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>     <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com><mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>     <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com>>
>      > >
>      > <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>     <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com><mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com
>     <mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com>>>>,
>      > >               Cordance/Parity/OASIS (U.S.A)
>      > >                      * Henrik Biering,
>      > hb at netamia.com <mailto:hb at netamia.com><mailto:hb at netamia.com
>     <mailto:hb at netamia.com>>
>      > >               <mailto:hb at netamia.com
>     <mailto:hb at netamia.com><mailto:hb at netamia.com <mailto:hb at netamia.com>>>
>      > <mailto:hb at netamia.com
>     <mailto:hb at netamia.com><mailto:hb at netamia.com <mailto:hb at netamia.com>>
>      > >               <mailto:hb at netamia.com
>     <mailto:hb at netamia.com><mailto:hb at netamia.com
>     <mailto:hb at netamia.com>>>>,
>      > >                        Netamia (Denmark)
>      > >                      * Hideki Nara, hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>     <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic- <mailto:hdknr at ic->
>      > tact.co.jp <http://tact.co.jp>>
>      > >               <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>     <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>     <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>>
>      > <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>     <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>     <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>
>      > >               <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>     <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>     <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>>>,
>      > >                        Tact Communications (Japan)
>      > >                      * John Bradeley,
>      > jbradley at mac.com
>     <mailto:jbradley at mac.com><mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>     <mailto:jbradley at mac.com>>
>      > >               <mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>     <mailto:jbradley at mac.com><mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>     <mailto:jbradley at mac.com>>>
>      > <mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>     <mailto:jbradley at mac.com><mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>     <mailto:jbradley at mac.com>>
>      > >               <mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>     <mailto:jbradley at mac.com><mailto:jbradley at mac.com
>     <mailto:jbradley at mac.com>>>>,
>      > >                        OASIS IDTrust Member Section (Canada)
>      > >                      * Mike Graves,
>      > mgraves at janrain.com
>     <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com><mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>     <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com>>
>      > >               <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>     <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com><mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>     <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com>>>
>      > <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>     <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com><mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>     <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com>>
>      > >               <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>     <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com><mailto:mgraves at janrain.com
>     <mailto:mgraves at janrain.com>>>>,
>      > >                        JanRain, Inc. (U.S.A.)
>      > >                      * Nat Sakimura, n-sakimura at nri.co.jp
>     <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp><mailto:n- <mailto:n->
>      > sakimura at nri.co.jp <mailto:sakimura at nri.co.jp>>
>      > >               <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp
>     <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp><mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp
>     <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp>>>
>      > >                        <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp
>     <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp><mailto:n- <mailto:n->
>      > sakimura at nri.co.jp <mailto:sakimura at nri.co.jp>>
>      > >               <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp
>     <mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp><mailto:n- <mailto:n->
>      > sakimura at nri.co.jp <mailto:sakimura at nri.co.jp>>>>, Nomura
>     Research Institute,
>      > >                        Ltd.(Japan)
>      > >                      * Robert Ott,
>      > robert.ott at clavid.com
>     <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com><mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>     <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com>>
>      > >
>      > <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>     <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com><mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>     <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com>>>
>      > >
>      > <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>     <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com><mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>     <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com>>
>      > >
>      > <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>     <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com><mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com
>     <mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com>>>>, Clavid
>      > (Switzerland)
>      > >                      * Tatsuki Sakushima,
>      > tatsuki at nri.com <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>     <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>
>      > >               <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>     <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>     <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>>
>      > <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>     <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>     <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>
>      > >               <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>     <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com><mailto:tatsuki at nri.com
>     <mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>>>>,
>      > >                        NRI America, Inc. (U.S.A.)
>      > >                      * Toru Yamaguchi,
>      > trymch at gmail.com
>     <mailto:trymch at gmail.com><mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>     <mailto:trymch at gmail.com>>
>      > >               <mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>     <mailto:trymch at gmail.com><mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>     <mailto:trymch at gmail.com>>>
>      > <mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>     <mailto:trymch at gmail.com><mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>     <mailto:trymch at gmail.com>>
>      > >               <mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>     <mailto:trymch at gmail.com><mailto:trymch at gmail.com
>     <mailto:trymch at gmail.com>>>>,
>      > >                        Cybozu Labs (Japan)
>      > >
>      > >                  In short, my first reaction to reading your
>     email was
>      > >               to think,
>      > >                  "Wow, here it is, the first example of OpenID
>     turning
>      > >               into W3C and
>      > >                  IETF and every other standards organization that
>      > >               turns into a small
>      > >                  group of insiders trying to control innovation!"
>      > >
>      > >                      Of course I think you, more than almost
>     anyone,
>      > >               can appreciate the
>      > >                  irony of that thought - I believe it was to avoid
>      > >               that very
>      > >                  situation that the OIDF was created, no?
>      > >
>      > >                      So if we DON'T want that to happen, I
>     think what
>      > >               we need to do ASAP
>      > >                  is turn this into a constructive dialog
>     between the
>      > >               proposers of
>      > >                  this Working Group and the Specs Council about how
>      > >               the charter might
>      > >                  be amended to addess some of your concerns.
>     (I'm not
>      > >               commenting yet
>      > >                  on your specific concerns, other than to say
>     that I
>      > >               agree with some
>      > >                  and not with others.)
>      > >
>      > >                      I suspect email is going to be much too
>     slow for
>      > >               such a dialog, so I
>      > >                  would suggest that Nat and Tatksuki set up a
>     telecon
>      > >               between the
>      > >                  Working Group proposers and the Specs Council
>      > >               members. I would also
>      > >                  suggest that before such a telecon, the Specs
>     Council
>      > >               get together
>      > >                  and collectively list their issues with the
>     Charter
>      > >               on the Working
>      > >                  Group Charter page. I have added a section for
>     this
>      > >               purpose:
>      > >
>      > >
>      >
>     http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups%3AContract_Exchange_1#cSpecification
>      > CouncilIssues
>      > >
>      > >
>      > >                      It may be that all the Specs Council members
>      > >               agree with your four
>      > >                  points below, in which case you can just wholesale
>      > >               copy them into
>      > >                  the wiki page. However it is very important
>     that the
>      > >               Specs Council
>      > >                  come to it's own consensus about the issues it has
>      > >               with the charter,
>      > >                  because without that, the WG proposers have no
>     hope
>      > >               of addressing
>      > >                  these issues, either with counterarguments or with
>      > >               potential amendments.
>      > >
>      > >                      Listing the issues there also enables us
>     to have
>      > >               a more focused
>      > >                  discussion than email alone by using comments
>      > >               directly on the wiki page.
>      > >
>      > >                      =Drummond
>      > >
>      > >                                    
>     ------------------------------------
>      > ------------------------------------
>      > >
>      > >                  *From:* David Recordon
>      > [mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>     <mailto:recordond at gmail.com><mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>     <mailto:recordond at gmail.com>>
>      > >               <mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>     <mailto:recordond at gmail.com><mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>     <mailto:recordond at gmail.com>>>
>      > >                  <mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>     <mailto:recordond at gmail.com><mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>     <mailto:recordond at gmail.com>>
>      > >               <mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>     <mailto:recordond at gmail.com><mailto:recordond at gmail.com
>     <mailto:recordond at gmail.com>>>>]
>      > >                  *Sent:* Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:33 AM
>      > >                  *To:* Nat Sakimura
>      > >                  *Cc:* specs-council at openid.net
>     <mailto:specs-council at openid.net><mailto:specs- <mailto:specs->
>      > council at openid.net <mailto:council at openid.net>>
>      > >               <mailto:specs-council at openid.net
>     <mailto:specs-council at openid.net><mailto:specs- <mailto:specs->
>      > council at openid.net <mailto:council at openid.net>>>
>      > >               <mailto:specs-council at openid.net
>     <mailto:specs-council at openid.net><mailto:specs- <mailto:specs->
>      > council at openid.net <mailto:council at openid.net>>
>      > >               <mailto:specs-council at openid.net
>     <mailto:specs-council at openid.net><mailto:specs- <mailto:specs->
>      > council at openid.net <mailto:council at openid.net>>>>;
>      > >                  Josh Hoyt; Tatsuki Sakushima; John Bradley;
>      > >               hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>     <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>     <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>
>      > <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>     <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>     <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>>
>      > >                  <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>     <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>     <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>
>      > >               <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>     <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp><mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp
>     <mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>>>>;
>      > Robert Ott; Michael
>      > >               Graves; Henrik
>      > >                  Biering; Drummond Reed; Nat Sakimura; 山口徹
>      > >
>      > >
>      > >                  *Subject:* Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create
>     the TX
>      > >               working group
>      > >
>      > >                      Hi Nat,
>      > >
>      > >                  I read Josh's email as agreeing with Mike's
>     statement
>      > of:
>      > >
>      > >                  The OpenID Specifications Council recommends that
>      > >               members reject
>      > >                  this proposal to create a working group
>     because the
>      > >               charter is
>      > >                  excessively broad, it seems to propose the
>     creation
>      > >               of new
>      > >                  mechanisms that unnecessarily create new ways
>     to do
>      > >               accomplish
>      > >                  existing tasks, such as digital signatures, and it
>      > >               the proposal is
>      > >                  not sufficiently clear on whether it builds upon
>      > >               existing mechanisms
>      > >                  such as AX 1.0 in a compatible manner, or
>     whether it
>      > >               requires
>      > >                  breaking changes to these underlying protocols.
>      > >
>      > >
>      > >                  While you have clarified that you don't intend to
>      > >               create a new XML
>      > >                  signature mechanism, OAuth describes a
>     mechanism to
>      > >               use public keys
>      > >                  to sign these sorts of parameters.  Signatures
>     aside,
>      > >               as Mike said
>      > >                  other aspects of the charter seem quite broad
>     and it
>      > >               is unclear how
>      > >                  it will build upon AX 1.0 and other underlying
>      > >               existing OpenID
>      > >                  technologies.
>      > >
>      > >                  Given the draft charter at
>      > >
>      > http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups%3AContract_Exchange_1:
>      > >                  1) The purpose of producing a series of extensions
>      > >               seems too broad.     OpenID was born on the idea of
>      > >               doing one simple thing and we've seen
>      > >                  success with OpenID and related technologies when
>      > >               they are made up
>      > >                  of small pieces loosely joined.  OpenID
>      > >               Authentication 2.0 broke
>      > >                  this rule in some areas and we're now seeing the
>      > >               repercussions of
>      > >                  doing so.
>      > >
>      > >                  2) In what jurisdictions are these contracts
>     legally
>      > >               binding?  Is
>      > >                  "arbitrary parties to create and exchange a
>      > >                  mutually-digitally-signed legally binding
>     'contract'"
>      > >               a justifiable
>      > >                  statement or should it be toned down?  It
>     should also
>      > >               be kept in
>      > >                  mind that since OpenID's creation it has been very
>      > >               clear that OpenID
>      > >                  does not provide trust, but rather trust can
>     be built
>      > >               on top of
>      > >                  identity.  I'm not saying that OpenID should never
>      > >               deal with trust,
>      > >                  just trying to understand if this Working Group
>      > >               intends to change
>      > >                  how OpenID currently does not create this form of
>      > trust.
>      > >
>      > >                  3) The purpose says that the Working Group
>     intends to
>      > >               possibly
>      > >                  extend AX and create a series of
>     specifications.  It
>      > >               does not seem
>      > >                  prudent to give a Working Group the ability to
>      > >               arbitrarily extend an
>      > >                  existing extension or create an unlimited
>     number of
>      > >               specifications.
>      > >
>      > >                  4) The Scope section is still not clear as to what
>      > >               the Working Group
>      > >                  will actually be producing.  I would prefer to see
>      > >               the section
>      > >                  rewritten, maybe mimicking the structure currently
>      > >               being considered
>      > >                  for the specification.
>      > >
>      > >                  As to if you wish to force this proposal
>     forward, I
>      > >               do not believe
>      > >                  that it currently has sufficient support
>     within the
>      > >               OpenID community
>      > >                  to succeed and that its broad scope
>     contravenes the
>      > >               community's
>      > >                  purpose.  This is why I'm really hoping that the
>      > >               proposal can be
>      > >                  refined to something which will be successful
>     that a
>      > >               broad community
>      > >                  can get behind!
>      > >
>      > >                  --David
>      > >
>      > >                      On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Nat Sakimura
>      > >               <sakimura at gmail.com
>     <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com><mailto:sakimura at gmail.com
>     <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com>>
>      > <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com
>     <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com><mailto:sakimura at gmail.com
>     <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com>>>
>      > >                  <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com
>     <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com><mailto:sakimura at gmail.com
>     <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com>>
>      > >               <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com
>     <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com><mailto:sakimura at gmail.com
>     <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com>>>>>
>      > wrote:
>      > >
>      > >                  Hi Josh,
>      > >                      To which statement did you agree?
>      > >
>      > >                      There has been a several things that has been
>      > >               pointed out, but I
>      > >                  think I have answered to them.
>      > >                      For example, for XML Sig, I have stated
>     that this
>      > >               spec is not for
>      > >                  XML, etc.
>      > >                  For modularization, yes, that is a possibility
>     but a
>      > >               scope needs to
>      > >                  be able to cover a field that it requires,
>     even if it
>      > >               ends up not
>      > >                  covering that field.
>      > >                  It is impossible to widen the scope though
>     narrowing
>      > >               it down at a
>      > >                  later date is easy.
>      > >                      Unfortunately, I have not heard back any
>     concrete
>      > >               response
>      > >                  for amendments. It would be more constructive
>     to have
>      > >               those.
>      > >                      Also, if you are giving advise to the
>     membership
>      > >               an recommendation
>      > >                  for not approving it, you need to state the
>     reasons
>      > >               concretely.
>      > >                      It needs to be one of
>      > >                      (a)    an incomplete Proposal (i.e.,
>     failure to
>      > >               comply with §4.1);
>      > >                  (b)    a determination that the proposal
>     contravenes
>      > >               the OpenID
>      > >                  community's purpose;
>      > >                  (c)    a determination that the proposed WG
>     does not
>      > >               have sufficient
>      > >                  support to succeed
>      > >
>      > >                           or to deliver proposed deliverables
>     within
>      > >               projected
>      > >                  completion dates; or
>      > >                  (d)    a  determination that the proposal is
>     likely
>      > >               to cause legal
>      > >                  liability for the OIDF or others.
>      > >                      and should state why the proposal falls
>     into one
>      > >               of the criteria
>      > >                  concretely and accountably.
>      > >                      Regards,
>      > >                      =nat
>      > >
>      > >                      On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 7:58 AM, Josh Hoyt
>      > >               <josh at janrain.com
>     <mailto:josh at janrain.com><mailto:josh at janrain.com
>     <mailto:josh at janrain.com>>
>      > <mailto:josh at janrain.com
>     <mailto:josh at janrain.com><mailto:josh at janrain.com
>     <mailto:josh at janrain.com>>>
>      > >                  <mailto:josh at janrain.com
>     <mailto:josh at janrain.com><mailto:josh at janrain.com
>     <mailto:josh at janrain.com>>
>      > <mailto:josh at janrain.com
>     <mailto:josh at janrain.com><mailto:josh at janrain.com
>     <mailto:josh at janrain.com>>>>>
>      > >               wrote:
>      > >
>      > >                  On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Mike Jones
>      > >
>      > >
>      > <Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
>     <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com><mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
>     <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>>
>      > >
>      > <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
>     <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com><mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
>     <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>>>
>      > >
>      > <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
>     <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com><mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
>     <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>>
>      > >
>      > <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
>     <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com><mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
>     <mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>>>>>
>      > >                  wrote:
>      > >
>      > >                  >  I realize it was Christmas week but it's been a
>      > >               week and we've
>      > >                  heard nothing
>      > >                  >  from any of the other specs council members on
>      > >               this proposal (or
>      > >                  the other
>      > >                  >  one as well).
>      > >
>      > >                  I agree with the statement that you made about
>     this
>      > >               proposal.
>      > >
>      > >                  Josh
>      > >
>      > >
>      > >
>      > >                  --     Nat Sakimura (=nat)
>      > >                  http://www.sakimura.org/en/
>      > >
>      > >                               --                 Nat Sakimura
>     (=nat)
>      > >               http://www.sakimura.org/en/
>      > >
>      > >
>      > >
>      > >
>      > >
>      > >
>      > >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nat Sakimura (=nat)
> http://www.sakimura.org/en/



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