[OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group

Mike Jones Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
Fri Dec 19 02:11:07 UTC 2008 

(finally, forwarding Nat's note, which I believe completes the current information on this proposal)

From: specs-bounces at openid.net [mailto:specs-bounces at openid.net] On Behalf Of Nat Sakimura
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:01 AM
To: david at sixapart.com
Cc: Dick Hardt; OpenID Specs Mailing List
Subject: Re: Proposal to create the TX working group

P.S., Nine things in the scope does not correspond to the deliverables. It merely indicates that these things need to be addressed.

P.P.S. Having stated above, after our evaluation, it boiled down to 4 deliverables.
I have created the wiki page for it. Please refer to it as the most current version of the charter proposal.
http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups:Contract_Exchange_1.0
Hope this one is finally acceptable.

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 10:42 PM, Nat Sakimura <sakimura at gmail.com<mailto:sakimura at gmail.com>> wrote:
I have discussed with Dick at iiw to see if it is possible to build on AX. It seems it is inevitable that there needs to be some "modifications/extensions" to AX if it is to be done on AX. We at NRI and Mike of JanRain have been evaluating what is needed since I submit the last version of the charter and we are coming close to the conclusion on what is needed. In essence, we need to add another message type apart from fetch and store to AX, and we need to define the direct communication in both directions (OP->RP and RP->OP). If it is done, we are quite confident that we can build the CX on top of AX. In conjunction with it, I have been working on XRD SimpleSign that it depends on. We are still working out the details, but that probably should be the topic of the WG to follow up.

I am going to post the amended charter to the Wiki.

Also, I think it is a good practice to formalize the message acceptance note issuing procedure (well, the workflow in general) so that there will not be a proposal which is not being dealt with.

Regards,

=nat


On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 4:52 PM, David Recordon <drecordon at sixapart.com<mailto:drecordon at sixapart.com>> wrote:
Hi Nat,
Mike Jones just pointed out that the Steward Council hadn't yet caught this email which I apologize for.

I have two concerns with this charter:
1) It appears the WG is going to deliver 9 specifications with a list that isn't clear about what each specification will do and how they relate.  Past approved WG proposals (as well as the current drafts) have had a very clear set of deliverables.
2) While discussed heavily at IIW, this proposal still does not clearly seem build on top of the AX specification.  The current OpenID specifications very clearly fit together and build atop each other and this one should be no different.

I'm working on figuring out how to have the Stewards Council recommendation created on a public mailing list, but felt it worthwhile to share my opinions here until that happens.

--David

On Nov 13, 2008, at 8:40 AM, Nat Sakimura wrote:


I was pointed out by Dick that "Key Exchnage" really should be "Key Discovery". I agree. So, I would do s/Key Exchange/Key Discovery/g.

Cheers,

=nat
On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 4:02 PM, Nat Sakimura <sakimura at gmail.com<mailto:sakimura at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi.

Here is the modified version of the charter based on the discussion at IIW. I chose Contract Exchange instead of Contract Negotiation since detailed negotiation is out of scope.

Cheers,

=nat

Contract Exchange WG Charter (formally TX).
In accordance with the OpenID Foundation IPR policies and procedures this note proposes the formation of a new working group chartered to produce an OpenID specification.  As per Section 4.1 of the Policies, the specifics of the proposed working group are:


Proposal:

(a)  Charter.
 (i)  WG name:  Contract Exchange WG (formally Trust Exchange Extension (TX))

 (ii)  Purpose:  The purpose of this WG is to produce a series of standard OpenID extension to the OpenID Authentication protocol that enables arbitrary parties to create and exchange a mutually-digitally-signed legally binding "contract" that are  both broadband and mobile friendly by defining appropriate bindings for each use case.

For this purpose, (1) public key exchange, (2) signed request and response based on the public keys, (3) content encryption based on public key, (4) extensible data transfer method, (5) contract format, (6) notification methods for asynchronous communications are needed to be defined. For this purpose, this WG will explorer the possibility of using/extending OpenID Attribute Exchange [AX] as well as defining new extensions where it may fit.

 (iii)  Scope:

Scope of the work

 *      Development of the specifications including:

    *   Public Key Exchange method
    *   A Public Key Cryptography based digital signature method.
    *   Legally binding contract format.
    *   Query/response communication protocols for establishing and canceling of the contract.
    *   Message Encryption method to be used for the relevant communications.
    *   Notification interface for asynchronous communications.
    *   Possible extension and profiling of [AX] to accommodate the above.
    *   Provisions for long term storage of the contracts.

    *   Conformance requirements for other data transfer protocol bindings

 *   Security, threats and Risk analysis

    *   Perform Security Risk analysis and profiles for best practice

 Out of scope

 *   Term negotiation: Actual negotiation of the terms of a contract should be dealt with out-of-band or by other specifications.

 *   Assurance programs or other identity governance frameworks.
 *   It is the intent that this specification be usable by any trust community, whether it uses conventional PKI hierarchies, peer-to-peer trust mechanisms, reputation systems, or other forms of trust assurance. The specification of any particular trust root, trust hierarchy, or trust policy is explicitly out of scope.

 (iv)  Proposed List of Specifications:  Sries of specs encompassing the above requirements. The actual spec may happened to be just an expansion of AX or several news specs as it will be determined in the WG. Expected completion of the first iteration is in Q1 2009.


 (v)  Anticipated audience or users of the work:  Implementers of OpenID Providers and Relying Parties, especially those who require security and accountability features to exchange sensitive customer information (e.g. personally identifiable information and credit card numbers) responsibly among trusted parties.

 (vi)  Language in which the WG will conduct business:  English.

 (vii)  Method of work:  E-mail discussions on the working group mailing list, working group conference calls, and possibly face-to-face meetings at conferences.
 (viii)  Basis for determining when the work of the WG is completed:  Drafts will be evaluated on the basis of whether they increase or decrease consensus within the working group.  The work will be completed once it is apparent that maximal consensus on the drafts has been achieved, consistent with the purpose and scope.


(b)  Background Information.

 (i)  Related work being done by other WGs or organizations:

 *   OpenID Attribute Exchange Extension 1.0 [AX]<http://openid.net/specs/openid-attribute-exchange-1_0.html>

 *   LIberty Alliance Identity Governance Framework [IGF] 1.0 Draft<http://www.projectliberty.org/liberty/content/download/4329/28939/file/liberty-igf-draft-1.0-2008-06-21.zip>

 *   XML Advanced Electronic Signatures [XAdES]
 *   WS-Trust 1.3 [WS-trust] <http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-sx/ws-trust/200512/ws-trust-1.3-os.doc>
 *   XRI 2.0 [XRI]
 *   XDI 1.0 [XDI]
 *   Vendor Relationship Management [VRM]


 (ii)  Proposers:
   Drummond Reed, drummond.reed at parity.com<mailto:drummond.reed at parity.com>, Cordance/Parity/OASIS (U.S.A)
   Henrik Biering, hb at netamia.com<mailto:hb at netamia.com>, Netamia (Denmark)
   Hideki Nara, hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp<mailto:hdknr at ic-tact.co.jp>, Tact Communications (Japan)
   John Bradeley, jbradley at mac.com<mailto:jbradley at mac.com>, OASIS IDTrust Member Section (Canada)
   Mike Graves, mgraves at janrain.com<mailto:mgraves at janrain.com>, JanRain, Inc. (U.S.A.)
   Nat Sakimura, n-sakimura at nri.co.jp<mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp>, Nomura Research Institute, Ltd.(Japan)
   Robert Ott, robert.ott at clavid.com<mailto:robert.ott at clavid.com>, Clavid (Switzerland)
   Tatsuki Sakushima, tatsuki at nri.com<mailto:tatsuki at nri.com>, NRI America, Ltd. (U.S.A.)
   Toru Yamaguchi, trymch at gmail.com<mailto:trymch at gmail.com>, Cybozu Lab (Japan)

   Editors:

   Nat Sakimura, n-sakimura at nri.co.jp<mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp>, Nomura Research Institute, Ltd.

 (iii)  Anticipated Contributions:
    * Sakimura, N., et. al "OpenID Trusted data eXchange Extention Specification (draft)", Oct. 2008. [TX2008]<http://svn.sourceforge.jp/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/spec/openid-trust-exchange-1_0.html?root=openidtx>.




On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 6:39 AM, David Recordon <drecordon at sixapart.com<mailto:drecordon at sixapart.com>> wrote:
Just wanted to add that Nat is running a session on TX at IIW this afternoon.  We should definitly chat about the needs being expressed in this thread and how they might be able to be solved with OpenID.

--David


On Nov 11, 2008, at 1:13 PM, Martin Paljak wrote:
On 09.11.2008, at 20:51, Nat Sakimura wrote:
As to AX+SAML (or for that matter XAdES) is concerned, that is a valid approach, but if I were to use SAML, I would use

Just to clarify a technical detail: The XAdES example regarding Estonia you mentioned earlier does not include transporting XAdES payloads over OpenID AX (which seems to be the purpose of the discussed workgroup where the similarities of SAML over AX come in). The special behavior and out of band assurances given by openid.ee<http://openid.ee> does not include anything new on the protocol level, just added semantics to basic OpenID transactions. If we could use PDF signatures as legally valid signatures in Estonia, it could be PDF based signatures instead of XAdES, or ODF signatures, or MS .doc signatures.

FYI, openid.ee<http://openid.ee> allows a RP to upload a contract (template) which must be agreed with and digitally signed (legally binding signature resulting in an XAdES document with the filled in contract signed by the user with an ID-card and stored on the OP) before the OP starts issuing positive assertions about the given user to the given RP. The contract could be a document of any kind (PDF, JPG, DOC, TXT) and the only thing that is transferred to the RP over AX is a 'secret url' from where the RP can download the signed contract (XAdES container with the possibly PDF contract in it).

The actual assurance (that the user has signed the contract the RP has uploaded) comes from out of band agreements/contracts between OP and RP. The AX attribute is just an extra option, if the RP wishes to automatically fetch and store the signed contract somewhere.

Basically it is an advanced and legally binding 'I agree with terms and conditions' checkbox built on top of standard OpenID.
With legally binding I mean that it is dead simple in the court: "Here are the terms and conditions you digitally signed and which you have violated" as checking checkboxes and pressing 'continue' is not a legally binding action in Estonia, at least I don't know of any court cases about it.

If you need an example use case, think of signing and faxing NDA-s before you can download some simple "secret" product documentation.


--
Martin Paljak
http://martin.paljak.pri.ee
+372.515.6495



--
Nat Sakimura (=nat)
http://www.sakimura.org/en/



--
Nat Sakimura (=nat)
http://www.sakimura.org/en/




--
Nat Sakimura (=nat)
http://www.sakimura.org/en/



--
Nat Sakimura (=nat)
http://www.sakimura.org/en/
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