No subject


Sat Dec 27 17:29:20 UTC 2008


nature.

> "A Public Key Cryptography based digital signature method", but isn't it =
already
> defined how to sign chunks of XML?  Why would the working group be develo=
ping
> a new signature mechanism?
Let me explain on it.

CX is not XML based. It is tag-value based. I do not think there is any gen=
eralized public key based signature algorithm that enables one to sign tag-=
value based on name spaces. What is defined in OAuth comes close, but it ne=
eds generalization as it is specific to OAuth. If there s a generalized suc=
h method, please point it to me. I understand that AuthN 2.1 would be looki=
ng at doing it. However, it is not there yet so it cannot be cited. Once it=
 gets citable, I envision that it will be citing it instead of incorporatin=
g it into the CX spec.

For other points, it would be appreciated very much if you could explicitly=
 state the points. Then, I would be replying to them.

By the way, from the process point, I believe that the specs council needs =
to be stating one of the reason stated in "4.2 Review". It needs to be one =
of

(a)    an incomplete Proposal (i.e., failure to comply with =1B$B!x=1B(B4.1=
);

(b)    a determination that the proposal contravenes the OpenID community's=
 purpose;

(c)     a determination that the proposed WG does not have sufficient suppo=
rt to succeed
         or to deliver proposed deliverables within projected completion da=
tes; or

(d)    a  determination that the proposal is likely to cause legal liabilit=
y for the OIDF or others.

On what point the current proposal falls into?

Regards,

=3Dnat



________________________________
=1B$B:9=3DP?M=1B(B: David Recordon [recordond at gmail.com]
=1B$BAw?.F|;~=1B(B: 2008=1B$BG/=1B(B12=1B$B7n=1B(B24=1B$BF|=1B(B 2:54
=1B$B08 at h=1B(B: Mike Jones
CC: Sakimura Nat; specs-council at openid.net
=1B$B7oL>=1B(B: Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group
I think that's a reasonable recommendation, though would like to first appr=
oach Nat to see if the charter can be made to address these concerns and th=
en resubmitted for review.

--David
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:20 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones at microsoft.com<ma=
ilto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>> wrote:

I have to agree with David that this charter is far from minimal or specifi=
c in many respects.  One of my concerns is the same as David's below - when=
 XMLDSIG and other signature algorithms already exist, it is incumbent upon=
 the proposers to justify the creation of yet another, incompatible signatu=
re algorithm.



It is therefore my recommendation that the specifications council communica=
te something like this position to the membership to guide their vote about=
 this working group:



The OpenID Specifications Council recommends that members reject this propo=
sal to create a working group because the charter is excessively broad, it =
seems to propose the creation of new mechanisms that unnecessarily create n=
ew ways to do accomplish existing tasks, such as digital signatures, and it=
 the proposal is not sufficiently clear on whether it builds upon existing =
mechanisms such as AX 1.0 in a compatible manner, or whether it requires br=
eaking changes to these underlying protocols.



We, as a specs council, have an obligation to promptly produce a recommenda=
tion prior to the membership vote.  My stab at our recommendation is above.=
  Wordsmithing welcome.  If you disagree, please supply alternate wording t=
hat you think we should use instead.



                                                                -- Mike





From: David Recordon [mailto:recordond at gmail.com<mailto:recordond at gmail.com=
>]
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 10:20 AM
To: Nat Sakimura
Cc: Mike Jones; specs-council at openid.net<mailto:specs-council at openid.net>
Subject: Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group



To update Nat's note, the proposal is actually at http://wiki.openid.net/Wo=
rking_Groups%3AContract_Exchange_1 (the wiki doesn't like periods in URLs).

While the number of specifications listed has been reduced, it still feels =
nebulous in terms of what will be produced as laid out by the purpose and s=
cope.  For example, the scope says that the working group will develop "A P=
ublic Key Cryptography based digital signature method", but isn't it alread=
y defined how to sign chunks of XML?  Why would the working group be develo=
ping a new signature mechanism?

--David

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Nat Sakimura <n-sakimura at nri.co.jp<mailto:=
n-sakimura at nri.co.jp>> wrote:

The most current version is here: http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups:Con=
tract_Exchange_1.0

Since AX 2.0 WG is spinning up, I have removed it from the possible output =
of this WG.

=3Dnat

Mike Jones wrote:

Forwarding this note to the list to kick off the actual specs council work =
on this spec=1B$B!D=1B(B

[Deleted the rest of the thread to bring the message below the current 40K =
list size limit]




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<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I realize it was Christmas week but it=1B$B!G=1B(Bs been a w=
eek and we=1B$B!G=1B(Bve
heard nothing from any of the other specs council members on this proposal =
(or
the other one as well).<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Do we need to schedule a conference call so we can close thi=
s
out?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; --
Mike<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma=
","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
specs-council-bounces at openid.net [mailto:specs-council-bounces at openid.net] =
<b>On
Behalf Of </b>Mike Jones<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 23, 2008 10:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Sakimura Nat; David Recordon<br>
<b>Cc:</b> specs-council at openid.net; general at openid.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working group<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thus far I believe that only David and I have weighed in on =
this.&nbsp;
Before I jump in again, I=1B$B!G=1B(Bd be interested in knowing the views o=
f Johnny, Brad,
Dick, Josh, and Allen.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>What do the other 5 of you have to say about this proposal?<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
-- Mike<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma=
","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Sakimura Nat
[mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 23, 2008 4:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Sakimura Nat; David Recordon; Mike Jones<br>
<b>Cc:</b> general at openid.net; specs-council at openid.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX working grou=
p<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif";
color:black'>P.S. Below, I used the word &quot;Algorithm&quot; but it is no=
t
referring to something akin to RSA-SHA1 etc. Rather, it is the method to cr=
eate
a signature base string from a subset of the tag-values in OpenID message. =
Word
such as &quot;scheme&quot; may be more appropriate. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>Nat
Sakimura (=3Dnat)</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div id=3DdivRpF969748>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span
style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span lang=3DZH-CN
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=1B$B:9=3DP?M=1B(B</span></b><b><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> specs-council-bounces at openid.net
[specs-council-bounces at openid.net] </span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-=
size:
10.0pt'>=1B$B$O=1B(B</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tah=
oma","sans-serif"'>
Sakimura Nat [n-sakimura at nri.co.jp] </span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font=
-size:
10.0pt'>=1B$B$NBeM}=1B(B</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=1B$BAw?.F|;~=1B(B<=
/span></b><b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>:</span></b><s=
pan
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 2008</span><s=
pan
lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=1B$BG/=1B(B</span><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>12</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'fon=
t-size:
10.0pt'>=1B$B7n=1B(B</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tah=
oma","sans-serif"'>24</span><span
lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=1B$BF|=1B(B</span><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 9:10<br>
</span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=1B$B08 at h=1B(B</spa=
n></b><b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>:</span></b><s=
pan
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> David Recordo=
n;
Mike Jones<br>
<b>CC:</b> general at openid.net; specs-council at openid.net<br>
</span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=1B$B7oL>=1B(B</spa=
n></b><b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>:</span></b><s=
pan
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Re: [OIDFSC] =
FW: Proposal
to create the TX working group</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif";
color:black'>Thanks. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>I
did not know that specs-council list is actually subscribable. </span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>I
now have subscribed to it. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>From
what I see from the archive, the biggest objection seems to be the signatur=
e. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>&gt;
&quot;A Public Key Cryptography based digital signature method&quot;, but i=
sn't
it already </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>&gt;
defined how to sign chunks of XML?&nbsp; Why would the working group be
developing </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>&gt;
a new signature mechanism?</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-s=
erif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>Let
me explain on it. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>CX
is not XML based. It is tag-value based. I do not think there is any
generalized public key based signature algorithm that enables one to sign
tag-value based on name spaces. What is defined in OAuth&nbsp;comes close, =
but
it needs generalization as it is specific to OAuth. If there s a generalize=
d
such method, please point it to me. I understand that AuthN 2.1 would be
looking at doing it. However, it is not there yet so it cannot be cited. On=
ce
it gets citable, I envision that it will be citing it instead of incorporat=
ing
it into the CX spec. </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>For
other points,&nbsp;it would be appreciated very much if you could explicitl=
y
state the points. Then, I would be replying to them.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>By
the way, from the process point, I believe that the specs council&nbsp;need=
s
to&nbsp;be stating one of the reason stated in &quot;4.2 Review&quot;. It n=
eeds
to be one of </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>(a)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
an incomplete Proposal (i.e., failure to comply with =1B$B!x=1B(B4.1);<br>
<br>
(b)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; a determination that the proposal contravenes the Ope=
nID
community's purpose;<br>
<br>
(c)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; a determination that the proposed WG does not h=
ave
sufficient support to succeed </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
or to deliver proposed deliverables within projected completion dates; or<b=
r>
<br>
(d)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; a&nbsp; determination that the proposal is likely to
cause legal liability for the OIDF or others.<br>
<br>
On what point the current proposal falls into? </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>Regards,
</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","s=
ans-serif"'>=3Dnat</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>&nbsp=
;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div id=3DdivRpF26306>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span lang=3DZH-CN
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=1B$B:9=3DP?M=1B(B</span></b><b><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> David Recordon [recordond at gmail.com]<br=
>
</span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=1B$BAw?.F|;~=1B(B<=
/span></b><b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>:</span></b><s=
pan
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 2008</span><s=
pan
lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=1B$BG/=1B(B</span><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>12</span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'fon=
t-size:
10.0pt'>=1B$B7n=1B(B</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tah=
oma","sans-serif"'>24</span><span
lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=1B$BF|=1B(B</span><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 2:54<br>
</span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=1B$B08 at h=1B(B</spa=
n></b><b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>:</span></b><s=
pan
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Mike Jones<br=
>
<b>CC:</b> Sakimura Nat; specs-council at openid.net<br>
</span><b><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=1B$B7oL>=1B(B</spa=
n></b><b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>:</span></b><s=
pan
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Re: [OIDFSC] =
FW: Proposal
to create the TX working group</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I think that's a reason=
able
recommendation, though would like to first approach Nat to see if the chart=
er
can be made to address these concerns and then resubmitted for review.<br>
<br>
--David<o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:20 PM, Mike Jones &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com">Michael.Jones at microsoft.com</a>=
&gt;
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<div>

<div>

<p><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I have to agree with Davi=
d that
this charter is far from minimal or specific in many respects.&nbsp; One of=
 my
concerns is the same as David's below <span lang=3DZH-CN>&#8211;</span> whe=
n XMLDSIG
and other signature algorithms already exist, it is incumbent upon the
proposers to justify the creation of yet another, incompatible signature
algorithm.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>It is therefore my recomm=
endation
that the specifications council communicate something like this position to=
 the
membership to guide their vote about this working group:</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>

<p>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D=
'>The
OpenID Specifications Council recommends that members reject this proposal =
to
create a working group because the charter is excessively broad, it seems t=
o
propose the creation of new mechanisms that unnecessarily create new ways t=
o do
accomplish existing tasks, such as digital signatures, and it the proposal =
is
not sufficiently clear on whether it builds upon existing mechanisms such a=
s AX
1.0 in a compatible manner, or whether it requires breaking changes to thes=
e
underlying protocols.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>We, as a specs council, h=
ave an
obligation to promptly produce a recommendation prior to the membership
vote.&nbsp; My stab at our recommendation is above.&nbsp; Wordsmithing
welcome.&nbsp; If you disagree, please supply alternate wording that you th=
ink
we should use instead.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
-- Mike</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
in 0in 0in'>

<p><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-=
size:
10.0pt'> David Recordon [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:recordond at gmail.com">reco=
rdond at gmail.com</a>]
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Sent:</span></b><s=
pan
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> Monday, December 22, 2008 10:20 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nat Sakimura<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Mike Jones; <a href=3D"mailto:specs-council at openid.net">specs-co=
uncil at openid.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Subject:</span></b=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> Re: [OIDFSC] FW: Proposal to create the TX work=
ing
group</span> <o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>To update Nat's note, the proposal is act=
ually
at <a href=3D"http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups%3AContract_Exchange_1"
target=3D"_blank">http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups%3AContract_Exchange=
_1</a>
(the wiki doesn't like periods in URLs).<br>
<br>
While the number of specifications listed has been reduced, it still feels
nebulous in terms of what will be produced as laid out by the purpose and
scope.&nbsp; For example, the scope says that the working group will develo=
p
&quot;A Public Key Cryptography based digital signature method&quot;, but i=
sn't
it already defined how to sign chunks of XML?&nbsp; Why would the working g=
roup
be developing a new signature mechanism?<br>
<br>
--David<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<div>

<p>On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Nat Sakimura &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:n-sakimura at nri.co.jp">n-sakimura at nri.co.jp</a>&gt; wrote:<o:=
p></o:p></p>

<p>The most current version is here: <a
href=3D"http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups:Contract_Exchange_1.0"
target=3D"_blank">http://wiki.openid.net/Working_Groups:Contract_Exchange_1=
.0</a><br>
<br>
Since AX 2.0 WG is spinning up, I have removed it from the possible output =
of
this WG.<br>
<br>
=3Dnat<br>
<br>
Mike Jones wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<div>

<p style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
Forwarding this note to the list to kick off the actual specs council work =
on
this spec<span lang=3DZH-CN>=1B$B!D=1B(B</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F=
497D'>[Deleted
the rest of the thread to bring the message below the current 40K list size
limit]</span><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

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