<div dir="ltr">Thanks Jeff, this is great !<div><br></div><div>./\.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Nov 4, 2025 at 8:13 AM Lombardo, Jeff via Openid-specs-authzen <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-authzen@lists.openid.net">openid-specs-authzen@lists.openid.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg-4170201195171663766">
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<p class="MsoNormal">FYI<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Amazon Ember Heavy",sans-serif">Jean-François “<span style="color:rgb(233,113,50)">Jeff</span>” Lombardo</span></b><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Amazon Ember Light",sans-serif">|<span style="color:gray">
</span><span style="color:rgb(233,113,50)">Amazon Web Services</span></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Amazon Ember Light",sans-serif;color:rgb(233,113,50)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:4pt;font-family:"Amazon Ember Light",sans-serif;color:gray"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Amazon Ember Light",sans-serif;color:gray">Architecte Principal de Solutions, Spécialiste de Sécurité<br>
Principal Solution Architect, Security Specialist<br>
Montréal, Canada<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Lombardo,
Jeff <<a href="mailto:jeffsec@amazon.com" target="_blank">jeffsec@amazon.com</a>> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> November 4, 2025 11:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> agent2agent <<a href="mailto:agent2agent@ietf.org" target="_blank">agent2agent@ietf.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Pieter Kasselman <<a href="mailto:pieter@spirl.com" target="_blank">pieter@spirl.com</a>>; Lombardo, Jeff <<a href="mailto:jeffsec@amazon.com" target="_blank">jeffsec@amazon.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Follow-up on the Tuesday side meeting on AI Protocols<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">As requested during the side meeting, here some additional pointers for the justifications that some of the elements of Authentication and Authorization are, as of now, worked on in other Area and SDO’s:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA">Delegation of Authorization is the core of the OAuth Working Group<u></u><u></u></span></li><ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="circle">
<li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA">The Working Group is making some good progress on Cross Trust Domain boundaries<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA"><a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-oauth-identity-assertion-authz-grant/01/" target="_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-oauth-identity-assertion-authz-grant/01/</a><u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA"><a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-oauth-identity-chaining/06/" target="_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-oauth-identity-chaining/06/</a><u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA">We should not forget than Model Context Protocol decided to rely on OAuth to prevent defining a new way of dealing with Authorization in their specification. Such
behavior accelerated the following draft in the OAuth WG:<u></u><u></u></span></li><ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="square">
<li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA">OAuth 2.0 Protected Resource Metadata -
<a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc9728/" target="_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc9728/</a><u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA">OAuth Client ID Metadata Document -
<a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-oauth-client-id-metadata-document/00/" target="_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-oauth-client-id-metadata-document/00/</a><u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA">OAuth 2.1 -
<a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-oauth-v2-1-14" target="_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-oauth-v2-1-14</a><u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA">Best Current Practice for OAuth 2.0 Security -
<a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc9700" target="_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc9700</a><u></u><u></u></span></li></ul>
<li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA">We should also note A2A is completely capable of working with OAuth credentials<u></u><u></u></span></li></ul>
<li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA">When involving users, the OpenID Foundation as this at the heart of OpenID Connect<u></u><u></u></span></li><ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="circle">
<li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA"><a href="https://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-core-1_0.html" target="_blank">https://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-core-1_0.html</a><u></u><u></u></span></li></ul>
<li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA">Agent authentication and identification is the core of the WIMSE Working Group
<u></u><u></u></span></li><ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="circle">
<li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA">Global repository:
<a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/wimse/documents/" target="_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/wimse/documents/</a><u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA">Architecture:
<a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-wimse-arch/" target="_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-wimse-arch/</a><u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA">Workload to Workload secure interactions (stop at the security, does not define the applicative layer of interactions):
<a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-wimse-s2s-protocol/" target="_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-wimse-s2s-protocol/</a><u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm">Identifier:
<span lang="EN-CA"><a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-wimse-identifier/" target="_blank"><span lang="FR-CA">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-wimse-identifier/</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></li></ul>
<li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA">Those two working groups are working
<i>de concert</i> to ensure that all of this multi trust domain capable and credential exchanging capable<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA">On the Authorization side:<u></u><u></u></span></li><ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="circle">
<li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA">The market, as part of Zero Trust, is embracing ABAC [NIST
<a href="https://csrc.nist.gov/pubs/sp/800/162/upd2/final" target="_blank">https://csrc.nist.gov/pubs/sp/800/162/upd2/final</a>] in the form of policies that can handle expanded taxonomy<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA">Cedar Language emerged as a mathematically provable language for scalable policy evaluation<u></u><u></u></span></li><ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="square">
<li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA"><a href="https://github.com/cedar-policy" target="_blank">https://github.com/cedar-policy</a><u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA">Currently looking to be transferred to CNCF<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA">Automated Reasoning capabilities:
<a href="https://arxiv.org/pdf/2403.04651" target="_blank">https://arxiv.org/pdf/2403.04651</a><u></u><u></u></span></li></ul>
<li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA">The OpenID Foundation is currently standardizing how a PEP can ask for an Authorization decision to a PDP. In your case, each Agent would be a PEP.<u></u><u></u></span></li><ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="square">
<li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA">This is happening through the AuthZEN Working Group :
<a href="https://openid.net/wg/authzen/" target="_blank">https://openid.net/wg/authzen/</a><u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="m_-1169924171286869470MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span lang="EN-CA">This currently going though final review for version 1.0 :
<a href="https://openid.net/public-review-period-for-proposed-authorization-api-1-final-specification/" target="_blank">
https://openid.net/public-review-period-for-proposed-authorization-api-1-final-specification/</a><u></u><u></u></span></li></ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">I hope those elements would allow you to improve the definition of the scope by understanding that those ICAM (Identification, Credentialling, and Access Management) problems should be out of scope and should remain build
upon what is done and standardized into those other Area / WG / SDO.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span lang="EN-CA">Jeff<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Amazon Ember Heavy",sans-serif">Jean-François “<span style="color:rgb(233,113,50)">Jeff</span>” Lombardo</span></b><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Amazon Ember Light",sans-serif">|<span style="color:gray">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:4pt;font-family:"Amazon Ember Light",sans-serif;color:gray"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Amazon Ember Light",sans-serif;color:gray">Architecte Principal de Solutions, Spécialiste de Sécurité<br>
Principal Solution Architect, Security Specialist<br>
Montréal, Canada<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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