<div dir="auto">Thanks Mike, it’s helpful to know that even drafts that aren’t ID’s can have stable URLs on <a href="http://openid.net/specs">openid.net/specs</a>. </div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Nov 27, 2024 at 9:33 AM Michael Jones <<a href="mailto:michael_b_jones@hotmail.com">michael_b_jones@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Glad to help. My one additional comment is in reaction to your statement: “</span>The next implementers draft will be <a href="https://openid.net/specs/authorization-api-1_0-02.html" target="_blank">https://openid.net/specs/authorization-api-1_0-02.html</a>,
and so on.<span style="font-size:11pt">” The working group should be publishing new numbered drafts to <a href="http://openid.net/specs/" target="_blank">openid.net/specs/</a> with each significant coherent set of updates to the spec. Not all of these drafts will be Implementer’s Drafts. Using OpenID Federation
for an example again, we’ve published 40 drafts but only four of those became Implementer’s Drafts.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> -- Mike</span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div class="m_3920166188560359767WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;padding:3pt 0in 0in;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Omri Gazitt <<a href="mailto:omri@aserto.com" target="_blank" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">omri@aserto.com</a>>
<br>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 26, 2024 4:48 PM<br>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">To:</b> AuthZEN Working Group List <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-authzen@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">openid-specs-authzen@lists.openid.net</a>><br>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Cc:</b> Michael Jones <<a href="mailto:michael_b_jones@hotmail.com" target="_blank" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">michael_b_jones@hotmail.com</a>><br>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Subject:</b> Re: [Openid-specs-authzen] New versions<u style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></u><u style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks Mike.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">This makes perfect sense, and exactly the naming convention we had in mind.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The current (and only) implementers draft is at <a href="https://openid.net/specs/authorization-api-1_0-01.html" target="_blank">https://openid.net/specs/authorization-api-1_0-01.html</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The next implementers draft will be <a href="https://openid.net/specs/authorization-api-1_0-02.html" target="_blank">https://openid.net/specs/authorization-api-1_0-02.html</a>, and so on.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As agreed at the November 12 meeting, the spec is currently small enough that we can add the evaluations and search capabilities without creating a new (minor) version. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Omri.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Nov 26, 2024 at 4:21<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span>PM Michael Jones via Openid-specs-authzen <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-authzen@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-authzen@lists.openid.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
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<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">The spec naming conventions used by the OpenID Foundation are described at
<a href="https://openid.net/wg/resources/naming-and-contents-of-specifications/" target="_blank">
https://openid.net/wg/resources/naming-and-contents-of-specifications/</a>. Spec versions are of the form N.M – typically 1.0, until such time as 1.0 becomes Final and therefore immutable. After 1.0 is Final, depending on the degree of changes, the follow-on
spec is typically numbered 1.1 or 2.0.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">There are also monotonically increasing draft numbers. All published numbered drafts are immutable.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">As an outside observer (and former OpenID Secretary), it’s my sense that all the AuthZen specs should be using version number 1.0 until Final, but
regularly publish numbered drafts until that goal is reached.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">This is parallel to the situation with OpenID Federation. Both
<a href="https://openid.net/specs/openid-federation-1_0-39.html" target="_blank">
https://openid.net/specs/openid-federation-1_0-39.html</a> and <a href="https://openid.net/specs/openid-federation-1_0-40.html" target="_blank">
https://openid.net/specs/openid-federation-1_0-40.html</a> are at version 1.0, but draft 40 updates the content of draft 39 in ways described in the history entry at
<a href="https://openid.net/specs/openid-federation-1_0-40.html#name-document-history" target="_blank">
https://openid.net/specs/openid-federation-1_0-40.html#name-document-history</a>.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">I hope this helps.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> -- Mike</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;padding:3pt 0in 0in;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Openid-specs-authzen <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-authzen-bounces@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">openid-specs-authzen-bounces@lists.openid.net</a>>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">On Behalf Of </b>Michael Schwartz via Openid-specs-authzen<br>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 26, 2024 12:26 PM<br>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">To:</b> AuthZEN Working Group List <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-authzen@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">openid-specs-authzen@lists.openid.net</a>><br>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Cc:</b> Michael Schwartz <<a href="mailto:mike@gluu.org" target="_blank" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">mike@gluu.org</a>><br>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Subject:</b> Re: [Openid-specs-authzen] New versions</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Got the time wrong. Sorry! Maybe next week I can join. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Here are my quick thoughts: <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">1. "OpenID Connect Core 1.0 incorporating errata set 2" -- this version "1.0" has not changed since 2014. I think a stable version has been important to its success.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2. At Gluu, we didn't want to hard code the authz endpoint URL in our clients. PDP metadata will also be handy if AuthZen is about to introduce new features that an implementation
may not support.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">3. I don't know if this is a valid consideration for a standards group, but as a vendor we may add add'l discovery metadata, and we let the enterprise add custom discovery metadata. <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- Mike<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Nov 26, 2024 at 10:34<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span>AM Michael Schwartz <<a href="mailto:mike@gluu.org" target="_blank">mike@gluu.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Maybe it would be better to discuss this in person. I can jump on the next call hopefully. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Nov 26, 2024 at 9:55<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span>AM Omri Gazitt via Openid-specs-authzen <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-authzen@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-authzen@lists.openid.net</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
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<p class="MsoNormal">The decision mechanism will come in for ID2. ID1 is immutable. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Nov 26, 2024 at 7:22<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span>AM Alex Babeanu via Openid-specs-authzen <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-authzen@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-authzen@lists.openid.net</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Mike,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">To be fair, everything before the implementer's draft was just a work in progress, "we're working on it". We should be able to change a *draft* as much as we see fit. The implementer's
draft just came out though, and I personally don't expect it to change.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Omri, that discovery mechanism should be in another release Imho, for the reason above mainly, and also I don't think we've discussed it much. Let this implementer's draft version
be final, it is also what I hear internally here at indykite.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">./\lex.<u></u><u></u></p>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 9:03<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span>AM Michael Schwartz via Openid-specs-authzen <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-authzen@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-authzen@lists.openid.net</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Authzen people, <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
The fact that it has been about five minutes, and there is already authzen version 1.1 is problematic. Specs that keep releasing new versions are not worth implementing. If you want a whole bunch of developers to implement APIs and software using your standard,
you can't keep changing it every week. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- Mike <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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