<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Thanks to various people for the explanations!<div><br></div><div>This makes sense to me. I support adoption of this document.</div><div><br></div><div>Joseph</div><div><br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage"><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 6 Aug 2024, at 16:50, Michael Jones via Openid-specs-ab <openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta charset="UTF-8"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Good question, Joseph!<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Paginated listings are hard because the intended contents, semantics, and invariants (or lack thereof) of successive paginated results in the face of changing underlying datasets can vary considerably by use case. The IETF SCIM working group took a shot at paginated listings in their initial RFCs and are now back at it for another swing at the target. This is taking them years, and while I believe we can and probably should build on their experiences, I don’t have confidence we’ll get it “right” any sooner.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">But… We wanted to get something concrete written down now so people can implement, see how it’s working for them, and iterate. Paginated listings are motivated by a real need in open finance ecosystems, among others.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">My personal thanks to my co-authors for starting us on this concrete engineering journey!<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> -- Mike<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor currentcolor; border-image: none; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Openid-specs-ab <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Vladimir Dzhuvinov via Openid-specs-ab<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, August 6, 2024 4:37 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Vladimir Dzhuvinov <<a href="mailto:vladimir@connect2id.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">vladimir@connect2id.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Call for Working Group Adoption of OpenID Federation Extended Subordinate Listing 1.0<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><p>It being still a work in progress and people seeing it as a Federation 1.0 extension rather than a required core API were the two reasons to choose the separate spec.<o:p></o:p></p><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";">Vladimir<o:p></o:p></pre><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">On 06/08/2024 10:11, Joseph Heenan via Openid-specs-ab wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">Could someone explain the thinking behind this being a separate spec rather than part of the federation spec please?<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">Thanks<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">Joseph<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">On 6 Aug 2024, at 02:15, Michael Jones via Openid-specs-ab<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">The OpenID Federation Extended Subordinate Listing 1.0 specification was contributed to the working group last week at<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-ab/2024-August/010351.html" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: rgb(70, 120, 134);">https://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-ab/2024-August/010351.html</span></a>. Per the decision on today’s working group call, this note starts a two-week call for working group adoption of the specification, running until Monday, August 19, 2024. Please reply to this e-mail indicating whether you support adoption and providing feedback on the specification.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">This specification is a starting point – not an endpoint. If adopted, it can and will be revised by the working group.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">This specification specifies functionality needed by Federation topologies with wide fan-out and few or no intermediaries. This occurs in practice in several ecosystems.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">For your convenience, this specification is hosted at<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://github.com/MichaelFraser1999/federation-extended-listing" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: rgb(70, 120, 134);">https://github.com/MichaelFraser1999/federation-extended-listing</span></a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>and rendered HTML can be viewed at<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://michaelfraser1999.github.io/federation-extended-listing/main.html" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: rgb(70, 120, 134);">https://michaelfraser1999.github.io/federation-extended-listing/main.html</span></a>.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> -- Mike (writing as working group co-chair)<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">_______________________________________________<br>Openid-specs-ab mailing list<br></span><a href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(70, 120, 134);">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</span></a><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br></span><a href="https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(70, 120, 134);">https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</span></a><o:p></o:p></div></div></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";">Openid-specs-ab mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";"><a href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";"><a href="https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">_______________________________________________</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Openid-specs-ab mailing list</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><a href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><a href="https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>