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<div dir="ltr">I’ve read entire windows cardspace book to be able to respond to these kind of conversations.</div>
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<div dir="ltr">Cardspace/infocards did a great job setting out principles including user centricity. But in terms of technology, these are few important differences. One is cryptographic holder binding - holder being able to sign a presentation using a key
signed over by the issuer. Infocards were either only self signed or sent to the issuer to be signed real-time (ie no direct presentation of issuer signed cards from the holder to the verifier).</div>
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<div dir="ltr">Also infocards were before smartphones were even invented/became mainstream ;)</div>
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<div dir="ltr">If we are talking about similarities, Verifiable credentials are much more similar to cnf claim RFC7800 than infocards.</div>
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<div dir="ltr">Best,</div>
<div dir="ltr">Kristina</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> Openid-specs-ab <openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net> on behalf of Nikos Fotiou via Openid-specs-ab <openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 11, 2023 2:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Vittorio Bertocci' <vittorio.bertocci@okta.com>; 'Artifact Binding/Connect Working Group' <openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Nikos Fotiou <fotiou@aueb.gr><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Openid-specs-ab] SIOP and webauthn
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<span lang="EN-US" style="">I read Vittorio’s description and I came up with the attached meme. Probably inaccurate but the resemblance in terminology cannot be ignored.
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<b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Vittorio Bertocci <vittorio.bertocci@okta.com>
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<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 12, 2023 12:03 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Artifact Binding/Connect Working Group <openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Nikos Fotiou <fotiou@aueb.gr><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Openid-specs-ab] SIOP and webauthn</span></p>
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Thank you :)</p>
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Information cards were an interoperable format representing the ability of a user to obtain a certain set of claims form a given issuer. The self issued cards mentioned above were cards sourcing claims from the client itself rather than an external issuer.</p>
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Cardspace was the Windows client that was capable of working with information cards.</p>
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HTH</p>
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On Sat, Mar 11, 2023 at 13:59 Nikos Fotiou via Openid-specs-ab <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">This message originated outside your organization.</span></strong></p>
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Sorry for asking but is “information cards“ and cardspace the same thing? FWIW I found this episode of Identity Unlocked about cardspace very educative </p>
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<span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:black"><a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fidentityunlocked.auth0.com%2Fpublic%2F49%2FIdentity%252C-Unlocked.--bed7fada%2F61103d3d&data=05%7C01%7CKristina.Yasuda%40microsoft.com%7C2ebb96788524449590a908db22838563%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638141721598033544%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SQNiSl6DF7L55BMNEQj8N1RIcRU3ieDl3FlqikCZH90%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="https://identityunlocked.auth0.com/public/49/Identity%2C-Unlocked.--bed7fada/61103d3d" shash="owTbGX5tnlPuJFDSlN8A/8yHBmhNnM/ezhi7xkQhk121msCi7+Nyrc+7FX8gbh2X9AydA83/TyfXNXM7Ll85UKfUQwMcuf9Fmpvhnfk7HnNmxaeRLglkUM3j3wYyjOAmixedTAejdNezY1mo5AEkQTu67R25gocT4DmSgfLRBNo=" target="_blank"><span style="color:black; text-decoration:none">Windows
CardSpace with Stuart Kwan</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:8.5pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:black"><a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fidentityunlocked.auth0.com%2Fpublic%2F49%2FIdentity%252C-Unlocked.--bed7fada%2F61103d3d&data=05%7C01%7CKristina.Yasuda%40microsoft.com%7C2ebb96788524449590a908db22838563%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638141721598033544%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SQNiSl6DF7L55BMNEQj8N1RIcRU3ieDl3FlqikCZH90%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="https://identityunlocked.auth0.com/public/49/Identity%2C-Unlocked.--bed7fada/61103d3d" shash="owTbGX5tnlPuJFDSlN8A/8yHBmhNnM/ezhi7xkQhk121msCi7+Nyrc+7FX8gbh2X9AydA83/TyfXNXM7Ll85UKfUQwMcuf9Fmpvhnfk7HnNmxaeRLglkUM3j3wYyjOAmixedTAejdNezY1mo5AEkQTu67R25gocT4DmSgfLRBNo=" target="_blank"><span style="color:#A2A2A9; text-decoration:none">identityunlocked.auth0.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:8.5pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"></span></p>
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11 Μαρ 2023, 10:26 μμ, ο χρήστης «Mike Jones via Openid-specs-ab <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>>» έγραψε:</p>
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SIOP standardization was completed in 2014 <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fopenid.net%2Fspecs%2Fopenid-connect-core-1_0.html%23SelfIssued&data=05%7C01%7CKristina.Yasuda%40microsoft.com%7C2ebb96788524449590a908db22838563%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638141721598033544%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=sU%2BK3PYZZWuK2wbUU9MhAlJszxQtRzpC4nVbq4iH%2Bbw%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="https://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-core-1_0.html#SelfIssued" shash="qBo4hGM+AFVSEYAwdr/EnQd4Nf6nZxWtZJ+Gn3smY31slyRuM3iQ+YsjaGIEhjD8cubtSNVH0oIRyDqHglaTGZTUuMEct2Vo3WZMub3tpZC+YyP/LwdqHafPijN5aB9ShuTq3u37ZwcT7LyJZBVSbtDFxaT95h+ZOqxjuoz+Ed8=" target="_blank">
https://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-core-1_0.html#SelfIssued</a>. (The ideas for it were partially based on self-issued Information Cards, which used a public/private keypair held in a wallet for authentication.)</p>
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-- Mike</p>
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<b>From:</b> Openid-specs-ab <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Sam Goto via Openid-specs-ab<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 11, 2023 11:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Artifact Binding/Connect Working Group <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Sam Goto <<a href="mailto:goto@google.com" target="_blank">goto@google.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Openid-specs-ab] SIOP and webauthn</p>
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I don't recall the timelines precisely, but didn't we develop WebAuthn before SIOP?</p>
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I think i understand why SIOP was developed, if it was done after WebAuthn, because, IIRC, WebAuthn didn't have the cross platform syncing capabilities that it has today, but i do wonder where SIOP would fit today.</p>
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On Sat, Mar 11, 2023, 9:41 AM Tom Jones via Openid-specs-ab <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>> wrote:</p>
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Check out chapi</p>
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thx ..Tom (mobile)</p>
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On Sat, Mar 11, 2023, 2:45 AM Nikos Fotiou via Openid-specs-ab <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>> wrote:</p>
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Hi,<br>
<br>
I have a question which is related to politics and standardization history.<br>
<br>
I believe that SIOP (as defined in openid connect core) could have been used instead of WebAuthn. A combination of SIOP+ctap (rather than WebAuthn+ctap) would have more chances of getting adopted. So I was wondering how we came up with yet another API instead
of adding support for SIOP to browsers. Did this ever occur as a possibility?<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Nikos<br>
<br>
--<br>
Nikos Fotiou - <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww2.aueb.gr%2Fusers%2Ffotiou%2F&data=05%7C01%7CKristina.Yasuda%40microsoft.com%7C2ebb96788524449590a908db22838563%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638141721598189796%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=UGQm8sW4YVpJwBhv1ZRaPG6NwPViOZciPKzGdJCD6RE%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="https://www2.aueb.gr/users/fotiou/" shash="dYM4YbRH1F6rBwBHh0iuQbAWbgh2f10f3WcTmbtyUzwlMw5Evk/+K8kzDUZMsugiMqUfzgsg8WV3i5VsmuiM28O6NbAzoULe7QZ941oj6/UkdbtgCTocepiyyRZ4WfZQjsFiUl4YvN9WPH10D5WEiG2aAcEGvaAwxm+rh2X/mYg=" target="_blank">
https://www2.aueb.gr/users/fotiou/</a><br>
Researcher - Mobile Multimedia Laboratory<br>
Athens University of Economics and Business<br>
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