<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Yu Gothic";
panose-1:2 11 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@Yu Gothic";
panose-1:2 11 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#0563C1;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:664019784;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:12980918 1381284290 67698691 67698693 67698689 67698691 67698693 67698689 67698691 67698693;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-start-at:0;
mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:-;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Yu Gothic";}
@list l0:level2
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level3
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level4
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level5
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level6
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level7
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level8
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level9
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Wingdings;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0in;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang="EN-US" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks, Mike!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Here is a first editor's draft of the whitepaper, with all the comments addressed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H556GIM_xD1yKl7rw1seq4bu83movFCkU8fQ7T8b1dI/edit#">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H556GIM_xD1yKl7rw1seq4bu83movFCkU8fQ7T8b1dI/edit#</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We will be requesting the OIDF Board to review the document, and if approved will proceed towards an announcement during the EIC next week on Thursday.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">One important note on the first editor’s draft. I acknowledge that the use-cases section needs to be reworked and updated before final publication (creating a template to call out the benefits of VCs more clearly, making existing use-cases
sharper, etc.), but the current version should be good enough as an editor’s draft. I agree with Gail that strategically we want the draft of this whitepaper out even if not perfect.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I also took the liberty to switch the locale to American English (“Licence” remains because it is an ISO term)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Please react if you disagree with any of the above.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks once again to everyone who has written text, commented, or contributed to the discussions. We would still need your help to take this draft to the final publication, but nevertheless super proud of what we have now
<span style="font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif">😊</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Kristina<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Openid-specs-ab <openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mike Jones via Openid-specs-ab<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 6, 2022 1:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Mike Jones <Michael.Jones@microsoft.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Openid-specs-ab] SIOP Special Topic Call Notes 5-May-22<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">SIOP Special Topic Call Notes 5-May-22<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In person at OSW:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Mike Jones<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina Yasuda<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten Lodderstedt<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Daniel Fett<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Dima Postnikov<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Andreas Åkre Solberg<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kushal Das<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Nat Sakimura<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Roland Hedberg<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On the call:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Jo Vercammen<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> David Waite<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Giuseppe de Marco<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Francesco Marino<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Gail Hodges<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> David Chadwick<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">SIOP Whitepaper<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> We're working on this draft<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1H556GIM_xD1yKl7rw1seq4bu83movFCkU8fQ7T8b1dI%2Fedit&data=05%7C01%7CKristina.Yasuda%40microsoft.com%7Cbc6e2f66b070446242bf08da2ef0779f%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637873908520419124%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=6IFazK6Tr%2F7r0TFUqMNma%2F9O3IhnrsueBDIJHdKuyQU%3D&reserved=0">
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H556GIM_xD1yKl7rw1seq4bu83movFCkU8fQ7T8b1dI/edit</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten spoke to changing the title to "OpenID for Verifiable Credentials"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Mike agreed, with the caveat that we need a clear definition of Verifiable Credentials<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> The definition should make it clear that it's a generic term and not just W3C Verifiable Credentials<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Mike proposed the shorthand OpenID4VC<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> People agreed<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina asked whether we want to use the term RP or Verifier<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Mike said that "Verifier" is the term that will be familiar to those we're trying to communicate with<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Nat spoke in favor of "Verifier"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> DW said that we may have per-spec roles - just like an OAuth Client is an OpenID Connect RP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten said that we have entities and roles, which can be orthogonal<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten said that he prefers "Wallet" over "Holder"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Nat said that "Holder" means issuer in Open Banking, and so is not a term we want to use<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina asked about the definition of "End-User"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Mike made the meta-point that wherever definitions from OpenID Connect apply, we should use them without changes<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> The one case where we chose not to do that was "Credential". In that case, we explicitly said that it's different.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> David Chadwick asked whether OpenID4VC can be used by non-human participants<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten said that the flow is explicitly designed to be driven by user interaction<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> David Chadwick doesn't like the term "Wallet Provider"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten said that there are providers that operate wallets - cloud wallet providers<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> David C. said that wallets in the cloud are different than wallets on your smart phone<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Nat said that wallets on a phone may still be controlled by other parties<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina proposed keeping the word "operate" and clarified that there can be different locations for wallets<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> People were supporting using the word "operate"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten proposed turning wordsmithing of this over to the editors<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> We mused about what "control" means<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten asked "Do you control your money if you put it in a bank?"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten said that whether something matches SSI principles is a philosophical discussion<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina asked whether to keep using "Identity Credential" or to use "Verifiable Credential"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Mike spoke in favor of "Verifiable Credential", given the now title of the paper<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> We clarified to David Chadwick that Verifiable Credentials are not just W3C Verifiable Credentials<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> For instance, they could be mDL objects<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Our definition of Verifiable Credential (VC) in the whitepaper already works<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Gail asked whether to add a reference to LEIs in the Entity definition<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Mike repeated that the principle stated earlier in the call to have our definitions be consistent with those in OpenID Connect and ISO<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> He said that we could talk about LEIs elsewhere, as appropriate, but not in our definitions<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Nat agreed<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina asked Jo if there are edits he's making to the document that we should discuss<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> He's making the edits as proposed changes<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> He's been making edits to the "Key Takeaways" section<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina asked if we can get WG consensus for the editors to resolve comments<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Mike supported that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Others did as well<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> The editors will proceed on that basis<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Gail asked about next steps to publish<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> We'll time the draft to be available for the talk at EIC<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> The board will have two days to review<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina hopes to have the first editor's draft during Norway time tomorrow<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Open Pull Requests<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbitbucket.org%2Fopenid%2Fconnect%2Fpull-requests%2F&data=05%7C01%7CKristina.Yasuda%40microsoft.com%7Cbc6e2f66b070446242bf08da2ef0779f%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637873908520419124%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=mmny6k9J90fGVQky1ccUmZtasHTIQGs4wAq3iEnMmMc%3D&reserved=0">
https://bitbucket.org/openid/connect/pull-requests/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> We didn't discuss pull requests<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Open Issues<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbitbucket.org%2Fopenid%2Fconnect%2Fissues%3Fstatus%3Dnew%26status%3Dopen&data=05%7C01%7CKristina.Yasuda%40microsoft.com%7Cbc6e2f66b070446242bf08da2ef0779f%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637873908520419124%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=LiNLv1BHeQBEZktE3TrXXBMmGeVVp%2FTPaEyKDTqW0mM%3D&reserved=0">
https://bitbucket.org/openid/connect/issues?status=new&status=open</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> We didn't discuss open issues<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>