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<p class="MsoNormal">SIOP Special Topic Call Notes 21-Apr-22<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mike Jones<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Kristina Yasuda<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Brian Campbell<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Torsten Lodderstedt<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Joseph Heenan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">David Waite (DW)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Bjorn Hjelm<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mike Varley<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">John Bradley<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">David Chadwick<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Vittorio Bertocci<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Petteri Stenius<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jeremie Miller<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jo Vercammen<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">SIOP Whitepaper<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> The draft is available<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H556GIM_xD1yKl7rw1seq4bu83movFCkU8fQ7T8b1dI/edit">
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H556GIM_xD1yKl7rw1seq4bu83movFCkU8fQ7T8b1dI/edit</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Please continue adding comments to the draft and indicating whether you agree with others' comments<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">IIW<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina created a spreadsheet of proposed IIW Sessions<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-vrUqJNOQxW8LQi3trmY0FVerHjuAtBiEOKiZVgUDHE/edit#gid=0">
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-vrUqJNOQxW8LQi3trmY0FVerHjuAtBiEOKiZVgUDHE/edit#gid=0</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Please contribute<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Open Pull Requests<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <a href="https://bitbucket.org/openid/connect/pull-requests/">
https://bitbucket.org/openid/connect/pull-requests/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> PR #149: Credential Issuance based on OAuth<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten pointed out that this PR has no outstanding comments<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> We decided to merge this one<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> PR #147: SIOP v2 Code Flow<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten addressed Kristina's comments earlier today<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> We agreed to merge this one<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> PR #157: Building Trust between Wallet and Issuer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten discussed the motivation for the PR<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> We discussed using x5c to represent an attestation chain<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Mike is to provide feedback<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten described key attestation<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten asked if anyone was familiar with how Android key attestation works<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> John said that it is more complicated than SafetyNet<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> David Chadwick asked whether we're in danger of replicating the WebAuthn/FIDO2 attestation mechanisms<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten asserted that we want to use what's already in the field<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> John said that you need to include a challenge in a remote attestation, which FIDO does<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> John said that SafetyNet doesn't actually attest to the key<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> SafetyNet attests to operating system integrity and the hash of the public key of the developer making the request<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> He said that the history is for game development - giving assurance of the integrity of the phone, etc.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> DW said that iOS AppAttest is similar<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> He wasn't sure whether that is the same as the Apple WebAuthn attestation<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> EIDAS certifications were brought up<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> John asked how attestations work in mDL<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina said that mDL doesn't trust the app to provide an attestation<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> John said that this assumes that you have the ability to run something in the trusted execution environment<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina said that there isn't necessarily a TEE<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina asked whether we want to add FIDO attestations to the PR<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten said that we need to support client attestation as well as key attestation<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> He wants to include Apple, Google, FIDO, and Qualified Electronic Signature attestations<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten wants verifiers to be able to verify membership in a Trust Framework<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> He also wants to support this in the VP spec<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten said that this is a very important piece of the overall trust model<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> John asked if it's self-issued, what does it really mean?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> People are encouraged to review the PR<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> David Chadwick asked about the opportunity for things to be hacked if time has passed<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> John said that we need to separate out wallet integrity from key integrity<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> John said that he doesn't like making it the RP's responsibility to verify wallet integrity<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten agreed<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina said that this transcends the issuance spec - we want this for verification and SIOP too<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> PR #156: [OIDC4VP] and an example of presenting ISO/IEC 18013-5:2021 mDL<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina described the PR and its motivation<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> There are several approvers and no opponents<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> We agreed to merge this<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> PR #148: SIOP support metadata & Request SIOP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina talked about impact of self-signing self-issued ID Tokens<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina pointed out that Mike doesn't like "op-issued"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten said that Jeremie asked whether the same OP can support both self-signed and third-party signed ID Tokens<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten said that this decision affects the flexibility of deployments<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Metadata can be used to distinguish between the cases<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten said that some of what we've done in the SIOP V2 spec could be considered as extensions to OpenID Connect itself<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> DW said that we need to keep the RPs' verification logic simple<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> DW said that metadata advertising what kinds of ID Token behaviors to expect would be good<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina wants to publish the three specs now that we've merged what we did today<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Mike confirmed that we are publishing to openid.net/specs - not just openid.bitbucket.io<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten said that the issues are more general than the naming of parameters<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Mike said that he hoped we could make progress on the parameter names<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Mike said that "self-signed" and "non-self-signed" would be better than what's there now<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina suggested "self-signed" and "attester-signed"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> There was substantial support for these identifiers<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina asked Torsten to add a note describing the larger discussion<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> PR #145: Revises the approach to credential metadata publishing<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Drops the use of the DIF Credential Manifest in favor of something simpler<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Clarifies that the spec can be used to issue more than just Verifiable Credentials<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina asked people to review<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> PR #148: SIOP support metadata & Request SIOP (again)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten asked for review of the updates he just made<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina asked DW and Mike to review prior to publication<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Open Issues<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <a href="https://bitbucket.org/openid/connect/issues?status=new&status=open">
https://bitbucket.org/openid/connect/issues?status=new&status=open</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> We didn't discuss open issues<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Next Call<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> The next SIOP call will be on Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 7am Pacific Time (yes, during IIW week)<o:p></o:p></p>
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