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<p class="MsoNormal">Do we agree that we are looking for a term that characterizes a model where “an End-User presents a cryptographically verifiable credential (not necessarily W3C VC data model, but in a more generic definition) directly to the verifier without
verifier needing to talk to the issuer”?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If we do, what is the best word?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If we are looking for a term to characterize an above-mentioned model, I would want to avoid “Self-Sovereign”, or even “Self-Issued”. Credentials presented by the user are issued by the Issuer and are not “Self-Issued” by the End-User;
It’s up to the RP/Verifier to decide if they will accept credentials presented by the End-User, so it’s not “Self-sovereign”.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">When proposing OpenID for Decentralized Identity, I did not have in mind an absolute necessity of DIDs, but the above-mentioned model. So, it’s interesting to learn that you automatically associated a term “Decentralized Identity” to DIDs.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">For me “user-centric”/”Direct Presentation” has been the most appealing term, though I fear it might be a little too generic.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Kristina<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">---<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Copying Giuseppe’s preferences below, since I chose to respond to David’s email for more context.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">“In order of personal preference:<br>
<br>
1. OID4SSI<br>
2. SIOID (Self Issued OpenID)<br>
3. OID4SIOPv2 (even if we should consider that the specs cover more than the SIOP)<br>
4. OID4UC<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">“<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Openid-specs-ab <openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Chadwick via Openid-specs-ab<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 18, 2022 9:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net<br>
<b>Cc:</b> David Chadwick <d.w.chadwick@verifiablecredentials.info><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Openid-specs-ab] whitepaper, PRs, and the next Atlantic Connect call RE: SIOP Special Topic Call Notes 14-Apr-22<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 14/04/2022 23:18, Kristina Yasuda via Openid-specs-ab wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for the notes, Mike!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Following up with one question and two asks on whitepaper, PRs, and the next Atlantic Connect call.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regarding the Whitepaper. We would like to get <b>WG’s input regarding the naming (branding) of the work</b>.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We are making a change to base Credential Issuance specification on Oauth2.0 rather than OpenID Connect (PR #149). However, because the issuance is about identity assertions, we discussed that we want to keep using OpenID (note: no Connect
after OpenID).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">What would people think <b>of “OpenID for Decentralized Identity (OpenID4DI)”</b> naming for the specification family of SIOPv2, OIDC4VP and OpenID4CI (OpenID for Credential Issuance)?
<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Whilst it is true that the specs cater for DIDs, they also cater for VCs and mDLs, but none of these technologies are mandatory to implement. Therefore using the term DI in the title is misleading. Rather we need a generic term that implies all 3 of these
technologies may be including without naming or mandating any of them. Suggestions are self-sovereign identity SSI (OID4SSI) or User Control (OID4UC) or SIOP (OID4SIOPv2) or ...<add your suggestion here>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Kind regards<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>David<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Since people are so used to calling our work “SIOP”, maybe a better idea is to
<b>call the entire body of work “SIOPv2”</b> as an alternative….<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">And again, huge thank you to Jo, David C., Torsten and Kenichi for being the lead editors and actively contributing to the whitepaper!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On behalf of the editors of SIOPv2, OIDC4VP, OpenID4CI specs, I also wanted to highlight that we are trying to make as much progress as possible before IIW, OSW and EIC.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Please, please review the PRs and related issues and explicitly note if you approve, have no objections, or want to request changes</b> – you can use whatever is convenient to you – make a comment, clicking an Approve/Request Changes
button, or directly tell the feedback to the editors.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I would also like to ask if we can <b>spend at least half of the next week’s Atlantic Connect WG call (the one before the SIOP call) on OpenID4DI related issues</b>, since I think we need more time than a SIOP call to cover all the important
ones prior to IIW.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you very much!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Kristina<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Openid-specs-ab <a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net">
<openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mike Jones via Openid-specs-ab<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 14, 2022 2:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Mike Jones <a href="mailto:Michael.Jones@microsoft.com"><Michael.Jones@microsoft.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Openid-specs-ab] SIOP Special Topic Call Notes 14-Apr-22<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">SIOP Special Topic Call Notes 14-Apr-22<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mike Jones<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Kristina Yasuda<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Brian Campbell<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Charlie Fontana<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Petteri Stenius<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Torsten Lodderstedt<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Kenichi Nakamura<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ben (bengo)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">David Schmudde<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Joseph Heenan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Juan Caballero<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">George Fletcher<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Petteri Stenius<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jo Vercammen<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">David Waite<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">SIOP Whitepaper<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> A draft is available<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1H556GIM_xD1yKl7rw1seq4bu83movFCkU8fQ7T8b1dI%2Fedit&data=05%7C01%7CKristina.Yasuda%40microsoft.com%7C908e2849c2294a93433808da21559a0f%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637858950319054394%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0ZHkJCvbwpiCl1wSm1BrmQy9rg49rMl29kPuKtcVnXk%3D&reserved=0">
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H556GIM_xD1yKl7rw1seq4bu83movFCkU8fQ7T8b1dI/edit</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> The plan is to publish it on openid.net<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">SIOP Call Schedule<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina asked whether to move the SIOP Special Topic call to always be at 8am Pacific Time<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> This would make the call time consistent week-to-week<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> People were supportive of the change<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Rebooting the Web of Trust (RWoT)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.weboftrust.info%2Fnext-event-page.html&data=05%7C01%7CKristina.Yasuda%40microsoft.com%7C908e2849c2294a93433808da21559a0f%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637858950319054394%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lSUSCZ6MSOIe%2BGDq%2B0%2BmSWZK%2FteiFw1mUIwTVtJc5lg%3D&reserved=0">
https://www.weboftrust.info/next-event-page.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Scheduled for September 26-30, 2022 in The Hague, Netherlands<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Open Pull Requests<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbitbucket.org%2Fopenid%2Fconnect%2Fpull-requests%2F&data=05%7C01%7CKristina.Yasuda%40microsoft.com%7C908e2849c2294a93433808da21559a0f%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637858950319054394%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WZ238oXBaHMpgpQLQyhgtNk7KXPwNHys3IZNQjlsr5Q%3D&reserved=0">
https://bitbucket.org/openid/connect/pull-requests/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> PR #149: Credential Issuance based on OAuth<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> No longer uses "openid" scope<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> It uses an "openid_credential" scope instead<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> George asked about other OpenID parameters that are used<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten said that login_hint is used, but that it could be removed<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> RFC 7523 defines private_key_jwt usage, for instance<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> This replaces the OpenID issuance flow with an OAuth-based one<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina said that an OpenID issuance flow could be layered on this<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten said that this uses RAR<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina asked if people wanted a week to review the PR<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> People said yes<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> We discussed the branding of the spec<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> It's no longer OpenID Connect<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> But it is about identity<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> OpenID for Credential Issuance is a possible brand<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina said that we want to merge this before IIW, ideally<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> PR #156: [OIDC4VP] and an example of presenting ISO/IEC 18013-5:2021 mDL<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina asked Kenichi to review<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina reviewed the PE syntax with others<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> We also want to merge this one before IIW<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> PR #152: OP Identification/Attestation<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> This is about providing the verifier information about the wallet<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> It defines an OP Attestation JWT<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> It has an OP identifier as the "iss" claim<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> George asked whether wallets are doing Dynamic Client Registration<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> George asked whether this is all self-asserted information<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten said that it is bound to the ID Token<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten asked people to think about whether this should always be added<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> George asked about whether we should also have an application attestation<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina discussed the secure area used for the signatures on the application<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten said that this sounds like key attestation to him, which is something different<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> George asserted that most users will want multi-device wallets<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> George said that the wallet may want more information about the application talking to it<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina asked George to add his thoughts as issue comments<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> PR #147: SIOP v2 Code Flow<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina said that we want to merge this before IIW<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Torsten added functionality since last week<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Mike will review<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> PR #148: SIOP support metadata & Request SIOP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> This was also updated based on feedback from last week's call<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Kristina said that we also want to merge this before IIW<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> George reviewed and approved<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Open Issues<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbitbucket.org%2Fopenid%2Fconnect%2Fissues%3Fstatus%3Dnew%26status%3Dopen&data=05%7C01%7CKristina.Yasuda%40microsoft.com%7C908e2849c2294a93433808da21559a0f%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637858950319054394%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=S1mpaZ%2FzX1dcotmQqLdunCFlKoYFP6nF2ImbH6%2B3fZU%3D&reserved=0">
https://bitbucket.org/openid/connect/issues?status=new&status=open</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> #1470: SIOP response with vp_token only?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> We will have a session on this at IIW<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Next Call<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> The next Connect call will be on Monday, April 18, 2022 at 4pm Pacific Time<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Openid-specs-ab mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.openid.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fopenid-specs-ab&data=05%7C01%7CKristina.Yasuda%40microsoft.com%7C908e2849c2294a93433808da21559a0f%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637858950319054394%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2FHRKdWZZkdCpMB5umVFEOdFW9jto9ZCtwmFz8JUeXMM%3D&reserved=0">https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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