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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Perhaps a demo of a working system
      (with one wallet holding all the VCs) might be helpful for people
      to visualise choosing between VCs. I put a video on youtube last
      February which you can view here<br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0FJayxCYwk">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0FJayxCYwk</a></div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">This works with no changes needed to
      the browser.<br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Kind regards</div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">David<br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/10/2021 04:39, Tom Jones wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAK2Cwb6Rq7ehY3Yrq8A8vy328VyE2d3tf_tMx_BKLfOXbRjdYA@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">I take the view that we create the chooser w/o any
        new browser support and then work with one of the vendors to
        create a proposal for changing the browser to make it work that
        way.  It is much easier to make a case if we know exactly what
        it is that we want. I suspect it will be some combo of the p/w
        manager and the protocol picker.
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>I am not at all certain that anyone really understands what
          a useful semantic will be. After all, we have had this
          capability for over 20 years in xml and never make it truly
          useful.</div>
        <div><br>
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        <div><br clear="all">
          <div>
            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
              data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div><span style="background-color:rgb(242,242,242);color:rgba(0,0,0,0.9);font-family:-apple-system,system-ui,system-ui,"Segoe UI",Roboto,"Helvetica Neue","Fira Sans",Ubuntu,Oxygen,"Oxygen Sans",Cantarell,"Droid Sans","Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol","Lucida Grande",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">Be the change you want to see in the world </span>..tom</div>
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          <br>
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      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 7:50 PM
          David Waite <<a href="mailto:david@alkaline-solutions.com"
            moz-do-not-send="true">david@alkaline-solutions.com</a>>
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir="auto">The pr proposal i made would be that there can
            be openid metadata defining capabilities, such as presenting
            smart health cards or mdl, supporting different DID schemes,
            etc.
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>A wallet would choose which ones it supports. Some
              issuers, like self-issued/v2, are self certifying while
              others may be under a more controlled process.
              Self-issued/v2 isn’t great for more complex queries like
              presentation exchange, since you are now asking for
              capabilities that weren’t required/specified in the base
              metadata. </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>You say your app supports operation as a particular
              issuer by catching the authorization_endpoint.</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>This still leaves the possibility that the underlying
              platform or browser won’t present a multiple choice option
              to the user (which we still need to work toward fixing
              imho) but makes it far more likely that the request will
              go to some piece of software designed to handle that type
              of request or that vertical. </div>
            <div><br>
              <div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
              <div dir="ltr"><br>
                <blockquote type="cite">On Oct 9, 2021, at 10:34 AM, Tom
                  Jones via Openid-specs-ab <<a
                    href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>>
                  wrote:<br>
                  <br>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <div dir="ltr">
                  <div dir="ltr">I understood and agreed with that up to
                    the part about Chooser selecting multiple wallets.
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>Here is what I cannot get my head around. When
                      the client makes a request (JAR, whatever) that
                      involves creds in different wallets. How or who
                      decides the split - or does every wallet get the
                      entire request? But even then, where/how does the
                      response (the ID token) get created. Sending
                      separate ID tokens does not seem like a useful
                      solution to me. Altho perhaps a collection of ID
                      tokens might work if they all went in one packet.</div>
                    <div><br clear="all">
                      <div>
                        <div dir="ltr">
                          <div dir="ltr">
                            <div><span style="background-color:rgb(242,242,242);color:rgba(0,0,0,0.9);font-family:-apple-system,system-ui,system-ui,"Segoe UI",Roboto,"Helvetica Neue","Fira Sans",Ubuntu,Oxygen,"Oxygen Sans",Cantarell,"Droid Sans","Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol","Lucida Grande",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">Be the change you want to see in the world </span>..tom</div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Oct 9,
                      2021 at 3:05 AM David Chadwick <<a
                        href="mailto:d.w.chadwick@verifiablecredentials.info"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">d.w.chadwick@verifiablecredentials.info</a>>
                      wrote:<br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
                      0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                      rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                      <div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>On 08/10/2021 21:44, Tom Jones wrote:<br>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote type="cite">
                          <div dir="ltr">As Mike has noted earlier, the
                            wallet you describe needs to be the only
                            wallet that the user has on their device.
                            Very few of us believe that is possible,
                            unless some gigantic social media company
                            takes control. </div>
                        </blockquote>
                        <p>It is possible that Apple and Google wallets
                          will eventually become the only wallets that
                          people have on their smartphones. It is
                          likely, with mDL and their existing credit
                          card support, that this will leap frog them
                          into pole position. OTOH it is also possible
                          that federations will specify the wallets,
                          policies and VCs that they will accept within
                          their federation.<br>
                        </p>
                        <p>Until we have global dominance, it likely
                          that users will hold many different wallets as
                          you say. The SIOP (chooser) component will
                          need to pass the policy onto the different
                          wallets for them to satisfy components of
                          this. Having the same semantic policy encoded
                          in different syntaxes will enable different
                          proprietary wallets to interwork with the SIOP
                          chooser.</p>
                        <p>Kind regards</p>
                        <p>David<br>
                        </p>
                        <blockquote type="cite">
                          <div dir="ltr">The sorts of wallets that are
                            contemplated today cannot hope to handle
                            arbitrary credentials of the sorts that
                            users will need in their day-to-day life. My
                            own university tells me which wallet I can
                            use to hold my VC diploma.  My state tells
                            me which wallets are trusted to hold my mDL.
                            <div><span style="background-color:rgb(242,242,242);color:rgba(0,0,0,0.9);font-family:-apple-system,system-ui,system-ui,"Segoe UI",Roboto,"Helvetica Neue","Fira Sans",Ubuntu,Oxygen,"Oxygen Sans",Cantarell,"Droid Sans","Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol","Lucida Grande",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">
</span></div>
                            <div><span style="background-color:rgb(242,242,242);color:rgba(0,0,0,0.9);font-family:-apple-system,system-ui,system-ui,"Segoe UI",Roboto,"Helvetica Neue","Fira Sans",Ubuntu,Oxygen,"Oxygen Sans",Cantarell,"Droid Sans","Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol","Lucida Grande",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>..tom<br>
                              <br>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <br>
                          <div class="gmail_quote">
                            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri,
                              Oct 8, 2021 at 12:07 PM David Chadwick via
                              Openid-specs-ab <<a
                                href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>>
                              wrote:<br>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                              style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                              0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                              rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                              <div>
                                <div>I would like to discuss the
                                  layering of OIDC with VCs, so that the
                                  application layer would simply pass a
                                  policy reference to the SIOP wallet
                                  and the wallet would respond with a
                                  (set of) VP(s), using the OIDC
                                  protocol. Then the management layer on
                                  top of this could define whatever
                                  policies it wanted to for requesting
                                  combinations of VCs, with or without
                                  selective disclosure, so that
                                  different federations with their own
                                  wallets can implement their own
                                  policies suitable for their
                                  requirements.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  This will decouple OIDC from
                                  presentation exchange (which in my
                                  opinion is too complex for the
                                  majority of use cases).</div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>Comments?</div>
                                <div>Kind regards</div>
                                <div>David</div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>On 08/10/2021 19:36, Mike Jones via
                                  Openid-specs-ab wrote:<br>
                                </div>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal">I took the
                                      action item to bring people’s
                                      concerns about the paucity of
                                      relevant IIW sessions to Phil
                                      Windley’s attention.  Both he and
                                      Heidi essentially responded that
                                      “It’s open space – make what you
                                      want to have happen happen.” 
                                      Which is fair.</p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal">They suggested
                                      that we use the IIW wiki pages <a
href="https://iiw.idcommons.net/IIW_33_Proposed_Topics" target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">
                                        https://iiw.idcommons.net/IIW_33_Proposed_Topics</a>
                                      and <a
                                        href="https://iiw.idcommons.net/IIW_33_Time_Zone_Session_Planning"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">
                                        https://iiw.idcommons.net/IIW_33_Time_Zone_Session_Planning</a>
                                      to coordinate and schedule
                                      clusters of sessions that we want
                                      to see.  They were supportive of
                                      people trying to organize in
                                      advance to get the most out of
                                      IIW.</p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal">                                                      
                                      -- Mike</p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                  </div>
                                  <br>
                                  <fieldset></fieldset>
                                  <pre>_______________________________________________
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</pre>
                                </blockquote>
                                <p>
                                  <blockquote type="cite"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0FJayxCYwk">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0FJayxCYwk</a></blockquote>
                                  <br>
                                </p>
                              </div>
_______________________________________________<br>
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                                href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab"
                                rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a><br>
                            </blockquote>
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                        </blockquote>
                        <p><br>
                        </p>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                  <span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
                  <span>Openid-specs-ab mailing list</span><br>
                  <span><a
                      href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
                      target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a></span><br>
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                      href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab"
                      target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a></span><br>
                </div>
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