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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/05/2021 17:29, Tom Jones wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAK2Cwb6NnanXOQz8uzmuo0AakikREQ712dteR73kRR99Bkj5yA@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">I have a problem when using ccg definitions with
the existing standards. This is openID not ccg.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I don't believe that your definition of claim matches the
existing use in computer security or in common language. Per
m-w</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>But doesn't it match your (ie. OpenID's) definition of a claim?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAK2Cwb6NnanXOQz8uzmuo0AakikREQ712dteR73kRR99Bkj5yA@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><span class="gmail-sb-0"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:15px 0px
0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-variant-ligatures:no-common-ligatures;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inherit;font-stretch:normal;font-size:18px;line-height:22px;font-family:"Open
Sans",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;letter-spacing:0.2px;display:block;color:rgb(33,37,41)">
<div class="gmail-sense gmail-has-sn"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;display:inline"><span
class="gmail-dt gmail-hasSdSense"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-stretch:normal;line-height:22px;vertical-align:baseline;letter-spacing:0.2px;color:rgb(48,51,54);display:inline"><span
class="gmail-dtText"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:normal;line-height:22px;vertical-align:baseline;letter-spacing:0.2px"><span
class="gmail-mw_t_bc"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:bolder;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline">a: </span>a
right to something</span></span><span
class="gmail-sdsense"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:10px
0px
0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:normal;line-height:22px;vertical-align:baseline;letter-spacing:0.2px;display:block"><span
class="gmail-sd"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:italic;font-variant:inherit;font-stretch:normal;line-height:22px;vertical-align:baseline;letter-spacing:0.2px;color:rgb(48,51,54)">specifically</span> <span
class="gmail-dtText"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:normal;line-height:22px;vertical-align:baseline;letter-spacing:0.2px"><span
class="gmail-mw_t_bc"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:bolder;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline">: </span>a
title to a debt, privilege, or other thing in the
possession of another</span><span class="ex-sent
gmail-first-child gmail-t gmail-no-aq gmail-sents"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:5px
0px
0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:normal;line-height:22px;vertical-align:baseline;display:block;letter-spacing:0.2px;color:rgb(34,95,115)">The
bank has a <span class="gmail-mw_t_wi"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:italic;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:normal;line-height:22px;vertical-align:baseline;letter-spacing:0.2px">claim</span> on
their house.</span></span></div>
</span><span class="gmail-sb-1"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:15px 0px
0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-variant-ligatures:no-common-ligatures;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inherit;font-stretch:normal;font-size:18px;line-height:22px;font-family:"Open
Sans",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;letter-spacing:0.2px;display:block;color:rgb(33,37,41)">
<div class="gmail-sense gmail-has-sn"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;display:inline"><span
class="gmail-sn gmail-sense-b"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:700;font-stretch:normal;line-height:22px;vertical-align:baseline;letter-spacing:0.2px"><span
class="gmail-letter"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:normal;line-height:22px;vertical-align:baseline;letter-spacing:0.2px">b</span></span><span
class="gmail-dt"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-stretch:normal;line-height:22px;vertical-align:baseline;letter-spacing:0.2px;color:rgb(48,51,54);display:inline"><span
class="gmail-dtText"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:normal;line-height:22px;vertical-align:baseline;letter-spacing:0.2px"><span
class="gmail-mw_t_bc"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:bolder;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline">: </span>an
assertion <u>open to challenge</u><span
class="ex-sent gmail-first-child gmail-t
gmail-no-aq gmail-sents"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:5px
0px
0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:normal;line-height:22px;vertical-align:baseline;display:block;letter-spacing:0.2px;color:rgb(34,95,115)">a <span
class="gmail-mw_t_wi"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:italic;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:normal;line-height:22px;vertical-align:baseline;letter-spacing:0.2px">claim</span> of
authenticity</span><span class="ex-sent gmail-t
gmail-no-aq gmail-sents"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:10px
0px
0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:normal;line-height:22px;vertical-align:baseline;display:block;letter-spacing:0.2px;color:rgb(34,95,115)">advertisers'
extravagant <span class="gmail-mw_t_wi"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:italic;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:normal;line-height:22px;vertical-align:baseline;letter-spacing:0.2px">claims</span></span><span
class="ex-sent gmail-t gmail-no-aq gmail-sents"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:10px
0px
0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:normal;line-height:22px;vertical-align:baseline;display:block;letter-spacing:0.2px;color:rgb(34,95,115)"><span
class="gmail-mw_t_wi"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:italic;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:normal;line-height:22px;vertical-align:baseline;letter-spacing:0.2px"><br>
</span></span><span class="ex-sent gmail-t
gmail-no-aq gmail-sents"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:10px
0px
0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:normal;line-height:22px;vertical-align:baseline;display:block;letter-spacing:0.2px;color:rgb(34,95,115)"><span
class="gmail-mw_t_wi"
style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:italic;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:normal;line-height:22px;vertical-align:baseline;letter-spacing:0.2px"><br>
</span></span></span></span></div>
</span>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span style="background-color:rgb(242,242,242);color:rgba(0,0,0,0.9);font-family:-apple-system,system-ui,system-ui,"Segoe UI",Roboto,"Helvetica Neue","Fira Sans",Ubuntu,Oxygen,"Oxygen Sans",Cantarell,"Droid Sans","Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol","Lucida Grande",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap">Be the change you want to see in the world </span>..tom</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 9:00
AM David Chadwick via Openid-specs-ab <<a
href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>We do not need to provide definitions as they already
exist in the W3C VC Data Model Recommendation, so we can
simply reference them. They are:<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<dl>
<dt><dfn id="gmail-m_3369448315320180233dfn-claims">claim</dfn></dt>
<dd> An assertion made about a <a
href="https://www.w3.org/TR/vc-data-model/#dfn-subjects"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">subject</a>. </dd>
<dt><br>
</dt>
<dt><dfn id="gmail-m_3369448315320180233dfn-credential">credential</dfn></dt>
<dd> A set of one or more <a
href="https://www.w3.org/TR/vc-data-model/#dfn-claims"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">claims</a> made
by an <a
href="https://www.w3.org/TR/vc-data-model/#dfn-issuers"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">issuer</a>.</dd>
<dt>A <dfn
id="gmail-m_3369448315320180233dfn-verifiable-credentials">verifiable
credential</dfn> is a tamper-evident credential that
has authorship that can be cryptographically verified. </dt>
</dl>
<p>You will note that the W3C recommendation does not say
anything about what the assertion may be, but if you look
it up in a dictionary you will get something like</p>
<p><span>Assertion - a positive statement or declaration,
often without support or reason <br>
</span></p>
<p><span>Please tell me what is unclear about the above</span></p>
<p><span>Kind regards</span></p>
<p><span>David</span></p>
<p><span><br>
</span></p>
<div>On 10/05/2021 16:36, Tom Jones via Openid-specs-ab
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">And I find the lack of clarity to be
extremely rude and disrespectful of any sort of
meaningful conversation about the issues. If you have a
better definition of claim, please let us hear it.<br>
<br>
<div>thx ..Tom (mobile)</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, May 10, 2021,
8:28 AM Oliver Terbu via Openid-specs-ab <<a
href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">This is another example of an extremely
rude and disrespectful tone by the same person:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"I want clarity of language. Right now we just
have a claim = some crap and credential = a pile
of crap."</div>
<div><a
href="http://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-ab/2021-May/008233.html"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-ab/2021-May/008233.html</a></div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Oliver</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 10 May
2021 at 14:39, Kristina Yasuda via Openid-specs-ab
<<a
href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Thank
you, Nat.</div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">As
promised, I wanted to outline the
relationship between "OpenID Connect for W3C
Verifiable Credential Objects" (OIDC4VCO)
draft and other existing drafts. (point 2 in
this issue) </span></div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">※
Note that there was a proposal to rename the
draft <span
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline"> "OpenID
Connect for W3C Verifiable Presentations",
but I will use OIDC4VCO<span> abbreviation
for now.</span></span></span><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<ul>
<li><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><span
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline">Relationship
with <span
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline">OpenID
Connect </span>Core: OIDC4VCO uses
mechanisms already defined in OIDC
Core, and does not introduce any
breaking changes.</span></span></li>
<li>Relationship with SIOP V2 draft: SIOP V2
draft will refer to the OIDC4VCO draft wrt
how W3C verifiable presentations (VPs) can
be transported using SIOP model, since
OIDC4VCO draft defines a generic way how
W3C VPs can be used with various OIDC
flows including SIOP V2.</li>
<li>Relationship with Claims Aggregation
draft (and Credential Provider draft once
contributed): these drafts will be used by
the OP to receive credentials from the
Claims Provider, so that the OP will be
able to present received credentials to
the RP using OIDC4VCO draft. These drafts
should be aligned as much as possible.</li>
<li>Relationship with DIF Presentation
Exchange (PE) draft: DIF PE draft could be
used as part of the request syntax in
OIDC4VCO draf, which can be discussed once
OIDC4VCO draft is adopted. DIF PE is a
query language that is protocol agnostic,
and it does not replace OIDC4VCO draft.</li>
</ul>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">This
is an initial summary and additional input
from the editors/working group is very
welcome.</span><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">A
work item to enable transporting W3C VPs
using OpenID Connect, will most likely not
be successful outside OpenID Foundation AB/C
Working Group, because that is where the
collective OpenID Connect <span
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline">
expertise resides. </span></span></div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><span
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline"><br>
</span></span></div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><span
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline">Best,</span></span></div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><span
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline">Kristina</span></span></div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><span
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline"><br>
</span></span></div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><span
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline"><br>
</span></span></div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div
id="gmail-m_3369448315320180233m_4803601983149473814gmail-m_3578548790420887896divRplyFwdMsg"
dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>差出人:</b>
Openid-specs-ab <<a
href="mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net</a>>
が Nat via Openid-specs-ab <<a
href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>>
の代理で送信<br>
<b>送信日時:</b> 2021年5月7日 0:55<br>
<b>宛先:</b> <a
href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>
<<a
href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>><br>
<b>CC:</b> Nat <<a
href="mailto:issues-reply@bitbucket.org"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">issues-reply@bitbucket.org</a>><br>
<b>件名:</b> [Openid-specs-ab] Issue #1229:
Adoption of the "OpenID Connect for W3C
Verifiable Credential Objects"
(openid/connect)</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div><font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt">
<div>New issue 1229: Adoption of the
"OpenID Connect for W3C Verifiable
Credential Objects"<br>
<a
href="https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbitbucket.org%2Fopenid%2Fconnect%2Fissues%2F1229%2Fadoption-of-the-openid-connect-for-w3c&data=04%7C01%7CKristina.Yasuda%40microsoft.com%7C546f6f574aa946624ea408d910a766d3%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637559134036105710%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=v8JUcUVcU4A%2FlkpyB43J2%2B9DB9axNOyOGjmQAe5GU58%3D&reserved=0"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbitbucket.org%2Fopenid%2Fconnect%2Fissues%2F1229%2Fadoption-of-the-openid-connect-for-w3c&data=04%7C01%7CKristina.Yasuda%40microsoft.com%7C546f6f574aa946624ea408d910a766d3%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637559134036105710%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=v8JUcUVcU4A%2FlkpyB43J2%2B9DB9axNOyOGjmQAe5GU58%3D&reserved=0</a><br>
<br>
Nat Sakimura:<br>
<br>
SIOP SC recommended the adoption of
“[OpenID Connect for W3C Verifiable
Credential Objects](<a
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\[1\] as a working group item. <br>
<br>
\[1\] [<a
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<br>
Some concerns were expressed by a few WG
members. <br>
<br>
This ticket is to give an opportunity
for those members to express their
concerns and proposers to reply to them.
<br>
<br>
There are a few criteria for
non-adoption of documents: namely<br>
<br>
1. If the draft does not fall into the
scope of the WG. <br>
2. If the draft is overlapping with
existing drafts, the technical content
should be raised as an issue and
eventually result in PR rather than
starting a new draft. <br>
<br>
1. NOTE: A non-overlapping portion
can be made as an independent document
so proposers should consider creating
such. <br>
<br>
3. If there is a legal or reputational
risk for the OIDF in adopting the
document. \(The board may intervene on
this ground.\) <br>
<br>
If the issues are only on the technical
nature of the proposed draft that does
not fall into the above criteria, then,
it should be dealt with during and after
the adoption of the document. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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