<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Vittorio contacted me separately indicating that John mentioned/people were interested in the DTVA work I did several years ago [1][2]. This was a poll back-channel API, an alternative for the existing three OIDC logout mechanisms (as well as access token revocation). I’d be more than happy to lead something on day 2 or 3; I imagine this should be geared more toward the problem at hand (iframes losing access to third-party site state).<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Re: What does Web logout mean, that is a great question. Back when I was doing the DTVA work we had an IIW session about “what are sessions” and that came up.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">At the time, I proposed that (outside vague notions of organizational security policy/hygiene) it is a signal from the user that future interactions may be by someone else. I didn’t get push-back at the time, but that doesn’t mean we can’t have new discussion at IIW.</div><div class=""><div class=""><div><br class=""></div><div>-DW</div><div><br class=""></div><div>1: <a href="https://bitbucket.org/openid/connect/src/master/distributed-token-validity-api.txt" class="">https://bitbucket.org/openid/connect/src/master/distributed-token-validity-api.txt</a></div><div>2: <a href="https://bitbucket.org/openid/connect/src/master/dtva-hashgraph-system.txt" class="">https://bitbucket.org/openid/connect/src/master/dtva-hashgraph-system.txt</a></div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Apr 19, 2021, at 6:25 PM, Mike Jones via Openid-specs-ab <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" class="">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta charset="UTF-8" class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Spec Call Notes 19-Apr-21<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Mike Jones<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Tom Jones<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Nat Sakimura<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Vittorio Bertocci<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Dmitri Zagidulin<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Kristina Yasuda<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Tim Cappalli<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Adam Lemmon<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Edmund Jay<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">John Bradley<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Tobias Looker<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Tony Nadalin<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Internet Identity Workshop (IIW)<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> IIW is the next three days. Here's some possible sessions to look for...<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Introduction to OpenID Connect - Mike Jones, Session 1<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Options for including W3C VC objects in OpenID Connect flows (Kristina)<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> SIOP Use Cases - Kristina<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Credential Provider draft - Tobias and Adam<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> SIOP Chooser - Jeremy and DW and Tom<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Using BB+ with JOSE and JWTs - Jeremy and DW<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Claims Aggregation draft - Nat and Edmund<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Logout Options in the face of Browser Changes - John suggested asking DW to do it<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Tim asked whether to also talk about what users understand about Web logout<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Authentic Data Economy series - David Huseby and Mike Lodder<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://dwhuseby.medium.com/dont-use-dids-58759823378c" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://dwhuseby.medium.com/dont-use-dids-58759823378c</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://github.com/TrustFrame/authentic-data-specifications" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://github.com/TrustFrame/authentic-data-specifications</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Mobile Driver's License<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> mDL is ISO/IEC 18013-5 in SC17 WG10<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Tom told us about a request for comments by DHS on Mobile Driver's Licenses<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2021-04-19/pdf/2021-07957.pdf" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2021-04-19/pdf/2021-07957.pdf</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> [Docket No. DHS–2020–0028]<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Minimum Standards for Driver’s Licenses and Identification Cards Acceptable by Federal Agencies for Official Purposes; Mobile Driver’s Licenses<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Kristina said that the ISO specs don't use VCs or DIDs<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> John talked about needing not only standards, but also regulations and issuers to get a working ecosystem<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Tony reported that Nat is working on a liaison agreement between SC17 WG4 and WG10 and the OpenID Foundation<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Nat said that this would be a Category 3 liaison<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Tony suggested that we comment supporting use of the SIOP protocol for Mobile Driver's Licenses<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Tobias asked if there is an issuance protocol<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Tony said that there is a protocol for retrieval but not issuance<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Tony suggested that he and Kristina take ownership of drafting a response to DHS<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Tom said that Kantara will be drafting a response mostly about privacy<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Modified SIOP Special Call Schedule<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> We will be alternating Pacific-friendly and Europe-friendly calls every two weeks<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> The next Europe-Friendly call will be Tuesday, April 27 at 7am Pacific Time<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> The next Pacific-Friendly call will be Tuesday, May 11th at 3pm Pacific Time<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Kristina will work with Mike Leszcz on updating the Foundation calendar<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> We'll reconfirm the preferred call schedule during the next special call<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Claims Aggregation Draft<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Nat asked Tobias and Adam about their progress on the Claims Aggregation Draft<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Tobias reported that they're working on addressing issues on their Credential Provider draft<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Tobias said that they've defined a new endpoint for indirect presentation of end-user claims<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> It can use different claims formats, including VCs, MDL, JWTs<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Tobias reported that Mike suggested using access tokens with single audiences<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> He said that both Edmund's draft and theirs use new endpoints<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Edmund said that the UserInfo Endpoint doesn't support request parameters to request subsets of claims<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Nat told Tom that we're talking about claims issuance and aggregation - not claims presentation<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Mike asserted that Edmund's and Nat's draft is an interface between the OP and Claims Providers<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> He asked whether the Credential Provider draft describes a different kind of interface<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Tobias said that the intent of the two is similar<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Tobias said that their credential notion is suitable for indirect presentation<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> There was a digression about the confusion caused by having multiple meanings for the work "credential"<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> To many, credentials are things like passwords, OTPs, biometrics, etc.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> To others, they're things like medical degrees, law degrees, proof of vaccination, etc.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Hence the confusion<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Nat said that his primary interest was when Tobias and Adam could bring their work into the working group<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> They said they want to address a few more issues before sending a draft for public review<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Open Issues<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://bitbucket.org/openid/connect/issues?status=new&status=open" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://bitbucket.org/openid/connect/issues?status=new&status=open</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> We ran out of time to get to this<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Next Calls<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> The next regular Connect call is scheduled for Thursday, April 22nd, 2021 at 7am Pacific Time<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> However this conflicts with IIW Day 3 agenda creation<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> I'll send a separate note asking if we should cancel for this week<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); 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