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    <font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Sounds a bit like the original
      "Native Apps" OIDF working group flow:)</font><br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/14/17 3:01 PM, Chuck Mortimore
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CA+wnMn-=zakyyDcP_jW9RgX7H6wddbjeCDbyEac++w7pkCJkPA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">Hi Chris 
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>In current state, we have an option to switch to mobile
          safari on a per-customer basis.  When our apps boot, if
          configured with a tenant specific URL, they load metadata from
          a .well-known endpoint which controls this behavior.   PKCE is
          used to secure callbacks over custom scheme URIs.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>We're currently working on adding the ability to specify a
          custom scheme to act as the IDP, as well as specific software
          in our mobile SDKs to deal with the handleOpenURL calls.  
          Essentially an SP app reads metadata, switches to IDP app,
          which uses it's session to initiate the OAuth flow for the SP
          app.  Once approved a custom scheme redirect_uri switches back
          to the SP app which completes the OAuth flow (PKCE verified)  
           </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Chris
          Phillips <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:Chris.Phillips@canarie.ca" target="_blank">Chris.Phillips@canarie.ca</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div
style="word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
              <div>Hi Chuck,</div>
              <div>Yes, please share. Definitely interested in
                understanding the approach particularly the scaling
                aspects of the technique.</div>
              <div>As an operator of a national federation that
                participates worldwide with thousands of IdPs[1]  it's
                helpful to understand how portable the approach is.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Thanks!</div>
              <div>C</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>[1]  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="https://technical.edugain.org/status"
                  target="_blank">https://technical.edugain.<wbr>org/status</a> </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <span id="m_-1874132751077751495OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
                <div
style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:black;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium
                  none;BORDER-LEFT:medium
none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df
                  1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt"><span
                    style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>
                  Openid-specs-ab <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net"
                    target="_blank">openid-specs-ab-bounces@<wbr>lists.openid.net</a>>
                  on behalf of Chuck Mortimore via Openid-specs-ab <<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
                    target="_blank">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.<wbr>net</a>><br>
                  <span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>
                  Chuck Mortimore <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:cmortimore@salesforce.com"
                    target="_blank">cmortimore@salesforce.com</a>><br>
                  <span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>
                  Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 1:40 PM<br>
                  <span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> George
                  Fletcher <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:gffletch@aol.com" target="_blank">gffletch@aol.com</a>><br>
                  <span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span> "<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
                    target="_blank">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.<wbr>net</a>
                  Ab" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
                    target="_blank">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.<wbr>net</a>><br>
                  <span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> Re:
                  [Openid-specs-ab] Single Sign-On is dead on iOS 11<br>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div class="h5">
                        <div dir="ltr">We're proceeding with an
                          implementation that allows us to target mobile
                          safari or a registered mobile app as the IDP. 
                          Perhaps a little closer to earlier drafts. 
                          Happy to share our plans if anyone is
                          interested.</div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">
                        <div>
                          <div class="h5">On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 8:09
                            AM, George Fletcher via Openid-specs-ab
                            <span dir="ltr"><<a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
                                target="_blank">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.<wbr>net</a>></span>
                            wrote:<br>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
                          0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                          solid;padding-left:1ex">
                          <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
                            <div>
                              <div class="h5"><font
                                  face="Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">However,
                                  if the user is using iCloud keychain,
                                  then their credentials should be
                                  filled in for the user so not too bad.
                                  The issue, is that if account is using
                                  2FA the user will have to do the 2FA
                                  dance for every app. That could be a
                                  pain.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  Thanks,<br>
                                  George<br>
                                </font></div>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <div class="m_-1874132751077751495h5">
                                <div>
                                  <div class="h5"><br>
                                    <div
                                      class="m_-1874132751077751495m_8510855096493843124moz-cite-prefix">On
                                      6/13/17 5:57 PM, Justin Richer via
                                      Openid-specs-ab wrote:<br>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div>
                                    <div class="h5">This has nothing to
                                      do with OIDC’s session management,
                                      but rather sessions in the browser
                                      itself. From what I understand,
                                      the per-app silos would prevent
                                      the OP from knowing it’s the same
                                      user coming in from different
                                      apps, since they wouldn’t have
                                      access to the session and cookie
                                      jar. So the UX degrades rather
                                      poorly as the user is prompted to
                                      log in separately to their
                                      identity provider (with primary
                                      credentials) from every single
                                      app.
                                      <div><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div> — Justin</div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div><br>
                                    <div>
                                      <blockquote type="cite">
                                        <div>
                                          <div class="h5">
                                            <div>On Jun 13, 2017, at
                                              5:40 PM, rich levinson via
                                              Openid-specs-ab <<a
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
                                                target="_blank">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.<wbr>net</a>>
                                              wrote:</div>
                                            <br
class="m_-1874132751077751495m_8510855096493843124Apple-interchange-newline">
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <div text="#000000"
                                            bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
                                            <div>
                                              <div class="h5">Hi Nat, et
                                                al,<br>
                                                <br>
                                                I am not sure I
                                                understand why this
                                                situation should cause
                                                anything to "break".<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Let me explain my view
                                                of this situation, in
                                                the context of general
                                                session mgmt,<br>
                                                which is the following:<br>
                                                <br>
                                                In the "OpenID Connect
                                                Session Management 1.0"
                                                spec:<br>
                                                    <a
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-1874132751077751495m_8510855096493843124moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-session-1_0.html"
                                                  target="_blank">
http://openid.net/specs/openid<wbr>-connect-session-1_0.html</a><br>
                                                 it says:<br>
                                                <blockquote>
                                                  <pre>"In OpenID Connect, the session at the RP typically starts
 when the RP validates the End-User's ID Token.
  ...
When the OP supports session management, it MUST also return the Session State
 as an additional session_state parameter in the Authentication Response.
  ...
This parameter is: 
    session_state
     Session State.
     JSON [RFC7159] string that represents the End-User's login state at the OP.
     It MUST NOT contain the space (" ") character.
     This value is opaque to the RP.
     This is REQUIRED if session management is supported. 

The Session State value is initially calculated on the server."
</pre>
                                                </blockquote>
                                                This indicates that the
                                                OP has knowledge of the
                                                End-User's login state
                                                at the OP.<br>
                                                However, this login
                                                state is independent of
                                                the "session at the RP",
                                                which is<br>
                                                created when the client
                                                app (RP) rcv's the
                                                identity token which, in
                                                the protocol,<br>
                                                is well after the
                                                End-User logged in at
                                                the OP.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Later in the spec,
                                                section 5, it is also
                                                stated that:<br>
                                                <blockquote>
                                                  <pre>"5.  RP-Initiated Logout
An RP can notify the OP that the End-User has logged out of the site and
 might want to log out of the OP as well. 
In this case, the RP, after having logged the End-User out of the RP,
 redirects the End-User's User Agent to the OP's logout endpoint URL.
This URL is normally obtained via the end_session_endpoint element
 of the OP's Discovery response or may be learned via other mechanisms."
</pre>
                                                </blockquote>
                                                This basically confirms
                                                the supposition above
                                                that the OP login and
                                                the RP session are<br>
                                                effectively independent
                                                entities.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Now, let's consider the
                                                case where a 2nd RP
                                                decides to start a
                                                session w the same
                                                End-User,<br>
                                                presumably, a 2nd RP on
                                                the same device where
                                                the 1st RP established a
                                                session.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                When the 2nd RP sends
                                                the Authentication
                                                Request to the OP's
                                                /authorize endpoint,<br>
                                                it seems obvious to me
                                                that the OP knows the
                                                End-User is logged in
                                                and would have<br>
                                                no problem issuing a 2nd
                                                id-token to the 2nd RP,
                                                w/o re-logging in the
                                                End-User.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Assuming this is the
                                                case, then I do not
                                                understand why ios-11,
                                                by "siloing" the apps<br>
                                                prevents the OP from
                                                issuing new id-tokens to
                                                each app, all under the
                                                original<br>
                                                OP-login by the
                                                End-User.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Am I missing something?<br>
                                                <br>
                                                  Thanks,<br>
                                                  Rich<br>
                                                <br>
                                                <br>
                                                <br>
                                                <br>
                                                <div
                                                  class="m_-1874132751077751495m_8510855096493843124moz-cite-prefix">On
                                                  6/12/2017 8:04 PM, Nat
                                                  Sakimura via
                                                  Openid-specs-ab wrote:<br>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                            <blockquote type="cite">
                                              <div>
                                                <div class="h5">
                                                  <div dir="ltr">Maybe
                                                    we can call upon the
                                                    privacy community as
                                                    well raising the
                                                    voice that this is
                                                    very bad for
                                                    privacy. 
                                                    <div>I wonder what
                                                      is the privacy
                                                      enhancement they
                                                      have in mind. </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <br>
                                                  <div
                                                    class="gmail_quote">
                                                    <div dir="ltr">On
                                                      Fri, Jun 9, 2017
                                                      at 2:34 AM 'Iain
                                                      McGinniss' via
                                                      OIDF Account
                                                      Chooser list <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                        href="mailto:oidf-account-chooser-list@googlegroups.com"
                                                        target="_blank">oidf-account-chooser-list@goo<wbr>glegroups.com</a>>
                                                      wrote:<br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      class="gmail_quote"
                                                      style="margin:0 0
                                                      0
                                                      .8ex;border-left:1px
                                                      #ccc
                                                      solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                                      <div dir="ltr">Hello
                                                        all,
                                                        <div><br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>Just to
                                                          bring this to
                                                          your
                                                          attention:
                                                          Apple has
                                                          essentially
                                                          killed single
                                                          sign-on for
                                                          native apps in
                                                          iOS 11.
                                                          Changes made
                                                          to
                                                          SFSafariViewController
                                                          (used by
                                                          AppAuth, and
                                                          the
                                                          recommended
                                                          mechanism for
                                                          federated
                                                          login by
                                                          Apple) now
                                                          mean that
                                                          browser state
                                                          is partitioned
                                                          per app, so
                                                          there is no
                                                          way for an
                                                          existing
                                                          authentication
                                                          in the browser
                                                          to be reused
                                                          by an app.</div>
                                                        <div><br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>This
                                                          fundamentally
                                                          breaks an
                                                          important part
                                                          of OpenID
                                                          Connect -
                                                          users will now
                                                          need to
                                                          re-authenticate
                                                          with their IDP
                                                          in every app
                                                          that they use.
                                                          There is still
                                                          time to
                                                          provide
                                                          feedback to
                                                          Apple on this
                                                          change, though
                                                          they have been
                                                          discussing
                                                          this change in
                                                          terms of
                                                          "enhancing
                                                          privacy" and
                                                          I'd be very
                                                          surprised if
                                                          they change
                                                          tack now.</div>
                                                        <div><br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>Iain</div>
                                                      </div>
                                                      -- <br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      --- <br>
                                                      You received this
                                                      message because
                                                      you are subscribed
                                                      to the Google
                                                      Groups "OIDF
                                                      Account Chooser
                                                      list" group.<br>
                                                      To unsubscribe
                                                      from this group
                                                      and stop receiving
                                                      emails from it,
                                                      send an email to
                                                      <a
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oidf-account-chooser-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com"
                                                        target="_blank">
oidf-account-chooser-list+unsu<wbr>bscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
                                                      For more options,
                                                      visit <a
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_d_optout&d=DwMFaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10&r=nNxUKneeZofWTyt9qclOUTeEg29NkEkknFyDupoNiiA&m=z6H6MqLIToKnju5TQdKnYOa6pGD9lyMxhwLO-mdMgac&s=XtvXRyjw8QvajPlQD8M0d6xQJnp_3jK9zv_hDOXEOXY&e="
                                                        target="_blank">
https://groups.google.com/d/op<wbr>tout</a>.<br>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div dir="ltr">-- <br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div
                                                    data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
                                                    <p dir="ltr">Nat
                                                      Sakimura</p>
                                                    <p dir="ltr">Chairman
                                                      of the Board,
                                                      OpenID Foundation</p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <br>
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                                                    class="m_-1874132751077751495m_8510855096493843124mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
                                                  <br>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                              <pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
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<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
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<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-1874132751077751495m_8510855096493843124moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.n<wbr>et</a><a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-1874132751077751495m_8510855096493843124moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab" target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mail<wbr>man/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a></pre></blockquote>
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