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    <p>+1 to this. Many systems I've deployed will parse and validate
      the ID token then throw it out, using local session management
      from that point forward.<br>
    </p>
    <p> -- Justin<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/24/2016 12:38 PM, Brian Campbell
      via Openid-specs-ab wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CA+k3eCSYt-hLjc+ta-tzzdNCYyoqoqBiPzcnYF1sdNtzL8JXPg@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
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            <div>I would say yes, Thomas, but I think the answer will
              depend on who you ask and when. <br>
              <br>
            </div>
            Typically, in my own experience anyway, the SSO token (like
            the id token) has a relatively short expiration time and is
            consumed and validated by the client/RP once and then that
            client sets up its own session or security context with its
            own lifetime. <br>
            <br>
          </div>
          But I think some have used or want to use the id token
          directly as the session token at the client/RP. And doing so
          might then rely on the exp in the id token as the session
          expiration, which presumably would want a larger window. <br>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div>I don't think the spec(s) explicitly require one approach
          or the other. And, as such, I don't think any of the logout
          stuff can assume one or the other. <br>
        </div>
        <br>
        <div>
          <div>
            <div><br>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 10:19
                  AM, Thomas Broyer via Openid-specs-ab <span dir="ltr"><<a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
                      target="_blank">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.<wbr>net</a>></span>
                  wrote:<br>
                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
                    0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                    rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                    <div dir="ltr">Aren't ID Tokens supposed to have a
                      short expiration time? (I asked twice already over
                      the last 2 years and never got an answer, maybe
                      this time?)</div>
                    <div>
                      <div><br>
                        <div class="gmail_quote">
                          <div dir="ltr">On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 6:05 PM
                            Mike Jones via Openid-specs-ab <<a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
                              target="_blank">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.<wbr>net</a>>
                            wrote:<br>
                          </div>
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                            style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal">I found your
                                  original logic to be sound.  The ID
                                  Token could be reused with
                                  id_token_hint until it expires.
                                  Communicating the matching expiration
                                  time in the logout made sense to me –
                                  particularly in the no Session ID
                                  case, as John points out.</p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal">– Mike</p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times
                                    New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
                                <div style="border-width:1pt medium
                                  medium;border-style:solid none
                                  none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225)
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                                  0in">
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="border:medium
                                    none;padding:0in"><b>From: </b><a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com"
                                      target="_blank">Phil Hunt (IDM)</a><br>
                                    <b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, August 24,
                                    2016 11:45 AM<br>
                                    <b>To: </b><a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com"
                                      target="_blank">Phil Hunt (IDM)</a><br>
                                    <b>Cc: </b><a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="mailto:Michael.Jones@microsoft.com"
                                      target="_blank">Mike Jones</a>; <a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
                                      target="_blank">
                                      openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.n<wbr>et</a></p>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <div dir="auto">
                              <div>
                                <div style="border-width:1pt medium
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                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="border:medium
                                    none;padding:0in"><br>
                                    <b>Subject: </b>Re:
                                    [Openid-specs-ab] Session ID
                                    semantics aligned across OpenID
                                    Connect front-channel and
                                    back-channel logout specs</p>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <div dir="auto">
                              <div>
                                <div>Scratch that. Was thinking oauth
                                  resource and tokens. </div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>Not sure the same would exist
                                  here. </div>
                                <div><br>
                                  Phil</div>
                                <div><br>
                                  On Aug 24, 2016, at 8:17 AM, Phil Hunt
                                  (IDM) via Openid-specs-ab <<a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
                                    target="_blank">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.<wbr>net</a>>
                                  wrote:<br>
                                  <br>
                                </div>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div>
                                    <div>It may be useful to include the
                                      original session expiry time or
                                      make the exp match the original id
                                      token. If the service isn't
                                      tracking state of sessions it
                                      needs to know for how much longer
                                      an id token might show up in order
                                      to keep its revocation list
                                      managed over time. <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Phil</div>
                                    <div><br>
                                      On Aug 24, 2016, at 5:58 AM, Mike
                                      Jones via Openid-specs-ab <<a
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
                                        target="_blank">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.<wbr>net</a>>
                                      wrote:<br>
                                      <br>
                                    </div>
                                    <blockquote type="cite">
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,32,96)">Good
                                              catch, Filip.  I’d
                                              replaced “exp” (expiration
                                              time) with “iat” (issued
                                              at) to align it with the
                                              ID Events spec
                                              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hunt-idevent-token-03"
                                                target="_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr<wbr>aft-hunt-idevent-token-03</a>. 
                                              But I’d also wanted to ask
                                              the working group – do we
                                              want to retain an explicit
                                              expiration time in the
                                              logout token?</span></p>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,32,96)"> </span></p>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,32,96)">                              <wbr>                        
                                              -- Mike</span></p>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><a
                                              moz-do-not-send="true"
name="m_-340934913959585311_m_-6451222161882914121_m_1139175348912087870_m_-1734851180359783533__MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,32,96)"> </span></a></p>
                                          <span></span>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Filip
                                              [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:panva.ip@gmail.com" target="_blank">mailto:panva.ip@gmail.com</a>]
                                              <br>
                                              <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday,
                                              August 24, 2016 1:24 AM<br>
                                              <b>To:</b> Mike Jones <<a
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                href="mailto:Michael.Jones@microsoft.com"
                                                target="_blank">Michael.Jones@microsoft.com</a>><br>
                                              <b>Cc:</b> <a
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
                                                target="_blank">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.n<wbr>et</a><br>
                                              <b>Subject:</b> Re:
                                              [Openid-specs-ab] Session
                                              ID semantics aligned
                                              across OpenID Connect
                                              front-channel and
                                              back-channel logout specs</span></p>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                          <div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal">Hello,</p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal">reviewing
                                                the changes i noticed in
                                                Section 2.4 of
                                                Backchannel draft 03 the
                                                'exp' claim got removed
                                                from Logout Token
                                                claims, however section
                                                4 still recomends OPs to
                                                use short expiration
                                                times for their Logout
                                                Tokens. It is not clear
                                                enough if 'exp' should
                                                be present or not.</p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"><br
                                                  clear="all">
                                              </p>
                                              <div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal">Best
                                                    Regards,<br>
                                                    <b>Filip Skokan</b></p>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal">On
                                                  Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at
                                                  3:44 AM, Mike Jones
                                                  via Openid-specs-ab
                                                  <<a
                                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.<wbr>net</a>>
                                                  wrote:</p>
                                                <blockquote
                                                  style="border-width:medium
                                                  medium medium
                                                  1pt;border-style:none
                                                  none none
                                                  solid;border-color:-moz-use-text-color
                                                  -moz-use-text-color
                                                  -moz-use-text-color
                                                  rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in
                                                  0in 0in
                                                  6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal">Session
                                                        ID definitions
                                                        in the OpenID
                                                        Connect
                                                        front-channel
                                                        and back-channel
                                                        logout specs
                                                        have been
                                                        aligned so that
                                                        the Session ID
                                                        definition is
                                                        now the same in
                                                        both specs.  The
                                                        Session ID is
                                                        scoped to the
                                                        Issuer in both
                                                        specs now
                                                        (whereas it was
                                                        previously
                                                        global in scope
                                                        in the
                                                        front-channel
                                                        spec).  This
                                                        means that the
                                                        issuer value now
                                                        needs to be
                                                        supplied
                                                        whenever the
                                                        Session ID is. 
                                                        This doesn’t
                                                        change the
                                                        simple
                                                        (no-parameter)
                                                        front-channel
                                                        logout
                                                        messages.  The
                                                        back-channel
                                                        specification is
                                                        now also aligned
                                                        with the ID
                                                        Event Token
                                                        specification.</p>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal">The
                                                        new
                                                        specification
                                                        versions are:</p>
                                                      <p><span
                                                          style="font-family:Symbol">·</span><span
style="font-size:7pt">       </span>
                                                        <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-frontchannel-1_0-01.html"
                                                          target="_blank">http://openid.net/specs/openid<wbr>-connect-frontchannel-1_0-01.h<wbr>tml</a></p>
                                                      <p><span
                                                          style="font-family:Symbol">·</span><span
style="font-size:7pt">       </span>
                                                        <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-backchannel-1_0-03.html"
                                                          target="_blank">http://openid.net/specs/openid<wbr>-connect-backchannel-1_0-03.ht<wbr>ml</a></p>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(136,136,136)"> </span></p>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(136,136,136)">                              <wbr>                        
                                                          -- Mike</span></p>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal">P.S. 
                                                        This notice was
                                                        also posted at <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://self-issued.info/?p=1599"
                                                          target="_blank">
http://self-issued.info/?p=159<wbr>9</a> and as <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://twitter.com/selfissued" target="_blank">
                                                          @selfissued</a>.</p>
                                                    </div>
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                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-bottom:12pt"><br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
                                                    Openid-specs-ab
                                                    mailing list<br>
                                                    <a
                                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.n<wbr>et</a><br>
                                                    <a
                                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab"
                                                      target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailma<wbr>n/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a></p>
                                                </blockquote>
                                              </div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </blockquote>
                                    <blockquote type="cite">
                                      <div><span>______________________________<wbr>_________________</span><br>
                                        <span>Openid-specs-ab mailing
                                          list</span><br>
                                        <span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.n<wbr>et</a></span><br>
                                        <span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab"
                                            target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailma<wbr>n/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a></span><br>
                                      </div>
                                    </blockquote>
                                  </div>
                                </blockquote>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div><span>______________________________<wbr>_________________</span><br>
                                    <span>Openid-specs-ab mailing list</span><br>
                                    <span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
                                        target="_blank">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.n<wbr>et</a></span><br>
                                    <span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab"
                                        target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailma<wbr>n/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a></span><br>
                                  </div>
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
                            Openid-specs-ab mailing list<br>
                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
                              target="_blank">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.n<wbr>et</a><br>
                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab"
                              rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailma<wbr>n/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a><br>
                          </blockquote>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <br>
                    ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
                    Openid-specs-ab mailing list<br>
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
                      target="_blank">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.n<wbr>et</a><br>
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab"
                      rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailma<wbr>n/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a><br>
                    <br>
                  </blockquote>
                </div>
                <br>
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      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Openid-specs-ab mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a>
</pre>
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